Octopussy: a missed opportunity

GoldenGun

I am rewatching the Bond movies and when I came to Ocoptussy I came to the following conclusion: It is an entertaining Bond film but could have been one of the very best. It has a good Cold War driven plot, the settings are interesting (exotic India and mysterious DDR), Peter Lamont creates one of his best sets for this one, the villains (Kamal and Orlov) are memorable, it's exciting, there are some good action scenes. But, the silliness really prevents this from being one of the better outings. The Tarzan yell, the "tennnis audience" during the Tuk Tuk chase, etc. Why oh why did they have to take the humour so far. Other Bond films have much humour too, but in no way so silly and obvious then in OP (I'm not counting TND and DAD here). MR is silly too but has other problems. OP really could have been brilliant, now it's just ok. Anyone feel the same way?

Samuel001

I think the serious tone of For Your Eyes Only should have been kept. A fan edit with much of the silly humour taken out would make Octopussy one of the best Bond films in my opinion.

saunders

I wonder if because Connery's rival Bond film NSNA was originally going to be released at the same time it was felt that OP should play to Roger Moore's strengths which of course was humour, the juvenile comedy of TSWLM and MR had led to the best box office returns for Moore's films while the more serious toned FYEO was less commercially successful (though still a big hit). What they ended up with was a unbalanced mix of both the slapstick comedy of MR with the cold war realism of FYEO.

PrinceKamalKhan

I'm quite fond of OP as it stands now(no surprise since it's the source for my username). Moore and silly humour just go well together IMHO. Also, FYEO while being relatively realistic compared to say the Lewis Gilbert directed films still contains quite a bit of silly humor as well. If there was a missed opportunity with OP it was that Sir Rog didn't make it his finale in the role. I'd like to think his Bond retired to India with the leading lady.

JBFan626

Quoting Samuel001:
I think the serious tone of For Your Eyes Only should
have been kept. A fan edit with much of the silly humour taken out would make
Octopussy one of the best Bond films in my opinion.

For Your Eyes Only is far worse of an offender of ridiculous silliness: "Blofeld" offering Bond sandwiches in the PTS, the cow double take, hockey thugs and the goals alarm, Bibi Dahl, the talking parrot, Thatcher scene...

Sure, scene for scene, OP packs more silliness combined than FYEO. But the silliness feels right at home in OP. Right from the PTS with Moore's winking to the Cuban soldier, we know we're in for a more campy sort of film. FYEO on the other hand should be more serious than it is. It's totally akward having those ridiculous scenes in an otherwise down to earth spy film.

So to answer the original post, no I don't think OP is plagued by it's silliness. Sure, the Tarzan yell and the "Sit!"...ah what the hell, I'll admit the whole bloody jungle chase is a bit wince inducing, but on the whole the humor compliments the film and makes it feel complete. OP is the the quintessential Moore film: striking the right balance of adventure/intrigue with light hearted fun.

DaltonCraig007

Quoting GoldenGun: The Tarzan yell, the "tennnis audience" during the Tuk Tuk chase

Those are the best parts of this great film !! ;;)

RogueThunderball

Quoting JBFan626: Sure, the Tarzan yell and the "Sit!"...ah what the hell, I'll admit the whole bloody jungle chase is a bit wince inducing, but on the whole the humor compliments the film and makes it feel complete

I quite concur. OP has grown on me quite a bit and I find it to be the most enjoyable Moore-era film. Granted, I also wish the the tarzan yell amongst a few other minor nuisances were absent from the film. If it would have taken itself just a little more seriously I think OP could have been not just a good Bond film which it is, but a great bond film.

fassbonder007

It's pretty good. Fight on top of a train, Fight on top of a plane, Q is in the field, Buzzsaw yo-yo and a great PTS.

AgentDalton

Honestly, I like it for what it is, but yes, there are moments in the film that wouldn't be missed.

I think the action scenes and stunts (for example, Bond hanging onto the plane) makes up for the silliness.

actonsteve

i wouldn't miss the silly bits if they were taken out. But to countermand that OP is quite tension filled and ominous in the bomb/circus train scene.

MRs silliness goes too far but OPs works better. There is a good balance of tension and humour.

echo

Not sure why OP is singled out in this thread. There are undoubtedly at least a few things in each Bond film that could be changed for the better.

OHMSS69

I concur woth several here
OP is my favorite Moore film. The humor is what one comes to expect from Moore Bond films. Like said earlier FYEO humor i found more cringe worthy and out of place.

007RogerMoore

I think that OP is very well balanced between serious parts and Moore-esque humour. I wouldn't take out the tarzan yell or the crocodile submarine. As a matter of fact, I find the latter to be ingenious! Moore should have gotten an Oscar for his performance IMO. So no, I don't think OP is a missed opportunity at all.

identigraph

Well, currently OP is standing at the top of my rankings, of course there are silly moments which could be removed, Tarzan yell and "sit" are a bit too silly but I don't have a problem with much else, brilliant PTS, good plot, nice mixture of locations, Roger Moore at the top of his game and probably the best final 30mins/hour of the franchise.

BAIN123

I think OP is Moore's second best Bond film and it currently stands at #8 in my rankings. Moore and Adams work well together, the plot moves at a lively pace and the story is engaging.

thelivingroyale

My 2nd favourite Moore film behind Spy. I love OP the way it is so no I don't think it was a missed opportunity. Some stuff is a bit stupid (tarzan), but the overall film makes up for it.

Risico

For the most part I really like Octopussy (with LALD and TSWLM, it's my favourite Roger Moore Bond movie) but the sequence in which he is hunted should have been an absolutely chilling and suspensful manhunt a la The Most Dangerous Game, and made Kamal an even more memorable villain. Yelling like Tarzan and telling a tiger to 'Sit!' undoubtedly remove all tension from what should have been a highlight of the movie. Ironically, had they played the chase absolutely straight, Bond's line, "No madame, I'm with the economy tour" would have seemed ten times funnier than it already does, as it would have provided comic relief at just the right time.

SirHenryLeeChaChing

I agree with most of what's been said, especially the last post by Risico. Kamal's hunt of Bond should have been as serious as Mishka and Grishka's hunt of 009 in the beginning. Moore's economy tour line was great but would have indeed been even better comic relief without the Tarzan yell and sit joke that only someone British would have understood. I realize sight and sound gags were a part of this era, and thus normal in that context, but I'm not a fan of them and feel they detract from rather than add to the film. They surely aren't reasons why I am a Bond fan.

00Beast

Everything has basically already been summed up here, but I'll throw in my two cents anyway. As far as humor is concerned, OP's is far from being the worst in the series. That award would go to Moonraker! The only humor gags that seriously hit me were the ones in the taxi chase. If they needed to remove anything, it was the humor in that chase. As for the Tarzan yell, the Sit comment, or the Hiss Off comment, the only one there that needed to be removed is the Tarzan yell, strictly because for all of Bond's attempts to remain hidden throughout the chase, he completely bungles them by completely giving away his location just to do the yell. This is more plot hole annoying than cheesy, I believe.

RogueAgent

GoldenGun said:
I am rewatching the Bond movies and when I came to Ocoptussy I came to the following conclusion: It is an entertaining Bond film but could have been one of the very best. It has a good Cold War driven plot, the settings are interesting (exotic India and mysterious DDR), Peter Lamont creates one of his best sets for this one, the villains (Kamal and Orlov) are memorable, it's exciting, there are some good action scenes. But, the silliness really prevents this from being one of the better outings. The Tarzan yell, the "tennnis audience" during the Tuk Tuk chase, etc. Why oh why did they have to take the humour so far. Other Bond films have much humour too, but in no way so silly and obvious then in OP (I'm not counting TND and DAD here). MR is silly too but has other problems. OP really could have been brilliant, now it's just ok. Anyone feel the same way?

The 2 moments you highlight are good ones. Moore's humour is all you needed really and not some of the pointless gimmick gags they had in Moore's films.

Missed opportunity of a great Cold War thriller? He have FRWL.
Of a more serious Moore Bond? There's TSWLM and FYEO.
Octopussy it's what it is... Not perfect (in my opinion) neither my favorite but nevertheless fun to watch, great action and a memorable Bond film.

Sandy

Definitely not a missed opportunity. Although it's has numerous flaws and others have summed them up quite nicely, it's still got a really good solid story, amazing villains, Maud Adams is the perfect Bond girl for Roger Moore, etc. I think FYEO is the best Moore Bond but Octopussy is my most watched Bond film, it's the one I reach for when I can't decide because I always enjoy it, even with its flaws :)

wildboonjive

Octopussy used to be my favorite for several years growing up. Part of it may have to do with the fact that it was the first one I saw at the cinema. But I digress. In recent years, and especially since becoming an adult, my tastes have changed like most of you I assume, and in some cases quite drastically. I now prefer the more serious Bonds, so Octopussy certainly doesn't fit the bill.

That said, it is still a highly entertaining Bond adventure, escapist fantasy at its best. And though I prefer more serious fare (even for Moore, as in FYEO), I feel that Octopussy is a perfect execution of the Moore style of Bond movies. It's silly, campy, humorous, but also thrilling and with great action to boot. It's just a reflection of its time, and more significantly, of the tone that the Moore era will always be remembered for.

myworldisenough

thelivingroyale said:
My 2nd favourite Moore film behind Spy. I love OP the way it is so no I don't think it was a missed opportunity. Some stuff is a bit stupid (tarzan), but the overall film makes up for it.

Spot on! It's my second favourite Moore film behind Spy. Its great the way it is apart from a couple of moments (ie stupid Tarzan) but no way a missed opportunity. Its a great Bond movie.

OHMSS69

Final comment. OP is one dammed good movie. I was surprised to learn that it hasn't been released on blue ray until now with the 50 anniversary boxed set. Looking forward to watching it again...

TheWizardOfIce

Well I have to confess to having a soft spot for OP and I would even go as far to say that once Bond gets to Berlin the next hour is some of the best stuff in the series.

I do agree with the initial post though that with a bit of judicious removal of stupid moments then OP could really have been an all time high.

Heres a list of stuff I can tolerate as it’s a Rog film and stuff that crosses the line with a ‘K’ for keep and a ‘C’ for cut.

‘Keep you in curry for a few weeks’ – for all people will whine its racist it gets me every time. Priceless delivery from Rog. K

Throwing the cash into the beggars plate and the knife into the door – tiny moments that last a blink of an eye and are enjoyable enough but even if you don’t like them they are gone in a second. K

The camel double take – nothing needs to be said here. Lessons should’ve been learnt from MR. C

The crowd looking back and forth like at Wimbledon – would prefer the film without it but can just about stomach it as Vijay is such a likeable chap. C

The bed of nails and the sword swallower scene – again would prefer to lose it but its not so bad I cant put up with it. The change in the colour of Rogs hair in this scene is far more offensive. C

Zooming the camera on the lab assistants tits – Q’s right it is pretty juvenile and a bit Carry On. C

‘Hiss off’ – not a bad line. I can live with it. K

‘Sit’ – again not too bad a line but feels a bit out of place. Could happily live without it. C

Tarzan yelp – In the top 5 embarassing moments of the series along with the pigeon, the invisible car, the slide whistle over the car jump and CGI parasurfing. C

Croc sub – Although it is classic Rog it’s a bit ridiculous. I wouldn’t mind if it went. C

Checking his watch in the monkey suit – probably the only moment that makes me cringe in the whole East Germany sequence. C

More C’s than K’s I guess but they are all tiny moments that I can largely overlook and don’t spoil my enjoyment of the film. It’s a shame that just a few snips probably amounting to about a minute of the film could really improve it quite a bit.

fassbonder007

I dont mind him dressing up like a clown, either. A spy might have to do that, but he wouldnt have time to put on his make-up that well. lol. it looked awful professional.

Trying to convince them of a bomb while dressed up as a clown added to the tension.

Baltimore_007

If Moore hadn't played the fool so often in that release it would of been a vast improvement, but is simply let down by ill advised and adolescent humor. There are serious moments to be had, but are few and far between. One moment we have a great sequence with Bond and Orlov on the train and next up mayhem ensues as Moore embarrasses himself and the franchise as a whole, with asinine Tarzan Yells and Aligator disguises. Fleming would not of approved. Not a favorite of mine, said so many times before, I don't like an over emphasis of humor in Bond, and that year it so nearly got out of hand on one or two occasions. Moore was simply too old for the part by then, should of gone out on a high with For Your Eyes Only, but we can't change what occured

A most impressive opening with the Acrostar Jet, some very good and exciting action sequences, such as the Octopussy train journey through West Germany and the knife throwing twins really worked well. The ubiquitous Steven Berkoff makes for a fun villain, and Jourdan isn't really nasty enough but does an adequate job, some of the other minor characters bring an array of different attributes to the screen. It's an easy enough film to evaluate when the truth of the matter is that, despite some decent action bits and pieces, Moore was too old and some of the nonsense humor should never had occured, bit of a dull ending also. Not a release I would want to watch again in a hurry, but there's plenty to get involved in, in it's defense

echo

In a l

TheWizardOfIce said:
The crowd looking back and forth like at Wimbledon – would prefer the film without it but can just about stomach it as Vijay is such a likeable chap. C

Croc sub – Although it is classic Rog it’s a bit ridiculous. I wouldn’t mind if it went. C

As OP is the first film I saw in the theater in 1983, I have a definite soft spot for it.

I like the Vijay tennis match because it's a nod to his former career.

The croc sub should go. It's not that far to swim to Octopussy's island and the sequence where Bond fights the yo-yo guy in the water and a real (?) croc interrupts them is just too confusing...

fassbonder007

back in the day when I was a Kid -OP and ,later, AVTAK were on HBO ALL THE TIME.

1st Bond movies I really watched...more than once. This was before VCR's.

bondsum

JBFan626 said:
For Your Eyes Only is far worse of an offender of ridiculous silliness: "Blofeld" offering Bond sandwiches in the PTS, the cow double take, hockey thugs and the goals alarm, Bibi Dahl, the talking parrot, Thatcher scene...

Great post and I agree with you. I can't see how these scenes are continually overlooked when comparing FYEO favourably to a serious Bond. I hate the Thatcher scene and parrot more than I do the naff stuff in Octopussy!

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