Bond fandom and religion

00Beast

TheWizardOfIce said:
Cracking posts DaltonCraig007 and CommanderRoss.

To be fair I didn't realise 00Beast was only 15 so I guess I'll cut him some slack. At that age you're still a product of you parents religious indoctrination so with a bit of luck he'll grow out of it when he gets out in the world and is allowed to think for himself.

16 actually and no, I am not a by-product of my parents. I know that Jesus Christ died to pay for my sins and His Father is God who rules the universe and is in command. I'm aware of what is in the Bible not because I take anyone's word for it but because I have read it. And no, I do not plan on "getting out into the world and think for myself." I've seen plenty of real-world stuff and the damage it does to people outside of Christian lifestyles. It's definitely not for me.

DaltonCraig007

Creasy47 said:
@DaltonCraig007, I really, really need to see that movie. Every clip I've seen of the film thus far looks hilarious.

'In The Loop' is the 2009 film adaptation of the tv series 'The Thick of It', which will have a 4th season later this year.

Creasy47

Looks extremely raw, I love it. I've been meaning to check out 'In The Loop' since its release.

DaltonCraig007

Creasy47 said:
Looks extremely raw, I love it. I've been meaning to check out 'In The Loop' since its release.

Do watch it, it's excellent ! :)

Creasy47

I shall try :) so many films I need to get to!

TheWizardOfIce

DaltonCraig007 said:

Creasy47 said:
@DaltonCraig007, I really, really need to see that movie. Every clip I've seen of the film thus far looks hilarious.

'In The Loop' is the 2009 film adaptation of the tv series 'The Thick of It', which will have a 4th season later this year.

Has the bew series been confirmed?
'The Thick of It' , from which this clip comes, is much better than In The Loop which I found a bit of a letdown to be honest.

00Beast said:

I know that Jesus Christ died to pay for my sins and His Father is God who rules the universe and is in command.

Please do not misappropriate the English language for your own ends as I find that grossly offensive.

You do not 'know' anything. The acquisition of knowledge is based on empirical facts of which you have none. What you do is 'believe' in stuff you have read in a book written by men and you will only 'know' if it's true or not when you die.

I would never have the presumption, to claim I 'know' anything one way or another about the existence of God. All I have to rely on is evidence, logic, reason and the balance of probabilities but that at least is better than a blind stab in the dark which is all you are relying on sir.

You only live twice
Once when you are born
And once when you look death in the face

(after Basho - 17th century Japanese poet)

Are you really willing to gamble away your first life that a load of stuff in an archaic manuscript written at time when the concepts of flight, electric power and splitting the atom would be regarded as impossible is 100% fact? Just hope for your sake at the moment of your second life you don't regret it all old chap.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Here we go... 8-|

00Beast

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 said:
Here we go... 8-|

Don't worry, I'm done trying to actually converse with him. It's not worth it, nothing I say will convince him and nothing he says will convince me. I consider this part of the discussion closed. It's not even friendly anymore, it turned from that immediately as soon as he decided to comment on my first thought.

SirHenryLeeChaChing

@ 00Beast- Just wanted you to know that I respect you for the courage of your convictions although they are diametrically opposed to mine. I hope you understand that my opposition to your views are not said in an effort to convince you that your beliefs are wrong for you, but in the effort to encourage you to respect and be tolerant of other views and accept that other religions are as valid to those who follow them as your religion is to you. I hope you will be a voice of tolerance and a beacon of light to others within your sect and point out to them that the entity you know as Jesus preached love and tolerance of all people and all religions, and not hatred and disrespect towards those whose views differ from yours.

Every year without fail, we have both Christians and Muslims committing murder and other heinous crimes against humanity in the name of "God/Allah" and their faith. The only way this will change is from within. Be one of those who stands up and says harming or discriminating another human being in the name of religion is wrong. Be a leader- not an animal.

Master_Dahark

Well, I finally clicked on this thread to see what was being said and:

:D

St_George

Master_Dahark said:
Well, I finally clicked on this thread to see what was being said and:

:D

Yes, unfortunately, discussions about religion often tend to become antagonistic on Internet forums - certainly did on the old KTBEU. However, for all that, this one hasn't been that bad and has remained pretty friendly and respectful.

And @SirHenryLeeChaChing, I commend you on your last post above there, sir - couldn't have put it better myself... :)

CommanderRoss

00Beast said:

TheWizardOfIce said:
Cracking posts DaltonCraig007 and CommanderRoss.

To be fair I didn't realise 00Beast was only 15 so I guess I'll cut him some slack. At that age you're still a product of you parents religious indoctrination so with a bit of luck he'll grow out of it when he gets out in the world and is allowed to think for himself.

16 actually and no, I am not a by-product of my parents. I know that Jesus Christ died to pay for my sins and His Father is God who rules the universe and is in command. I'm aware of what is in the Bible not because I take anyone's word for it but because I have read it. And no, I do not plan on "getting out into the world and think for myself." I've seen plenty of real-world stuff and the damage it does to people outside of Christian lifestyles. It's definitely not for me.

First, I'm not asking you to give up your faith, I would neve do that. I would however ask you to always be critical about what people tell you is right and wrong and make up your own mind. There's one golden rule that goes for Cristians, Atheists, Muslims, Hindu's and what-have-you-not alike: Don't do to others what you don't want done to yourself.

I once worked together with a higly religious collegue. He was questioned about it by others and he said the following:
I'm not trying to convince you, or anybody. I believe that, next to the rules of law in this country, I have to justify everything I have done to a higher power when I die. It's that simple". I might think he's wrong there, I think there will be no justification, but I can only respect him for his views. He's not doing anybody harm, but moreover, he was thinking for himself! He wouldn't accept words from a priest who then turned out not to abide them himself. He wouldn't accept words from any of his church's leaders if he thought they were not righteous, discriminating, or what not.

I know it will be hard for you to accept these words from me, as you probably think I'm some sort of antichrist, but I'm not. I'm just another human beeing.

And second, yes, a lot of bad things happen to people who do not follow (your) Christian lifestyle, but a lot of bad things happen to people who do follow (a) Christian lifestyle as well. Most recently you've had the affairs in the Catholic church, and the whole war in the Balkans only 15 years ago religious views (Christian! Orthodox for the Serbs, Catholic for the Croatians) were used to justify killing their neighbours of whom just a few days ago they'd known mother, grandmother etc. etc.

TheWizardOfIce

I'm bored of all this God exists/no he doesn't argument. No one is going to change anyone's mind and as far as I'm concerned 00Beast can pass his short time on this planet in whatever way he chooses. It's his funeral at the end of day - I certainly couldn't give a toss about trying to convert people.

I'd like to change tack and present if I may a thesis I have formulated over the last few days of this debate regarding Bond and religion.

00Beast (dont get irate - I'm not singling you out here, you are just a convenient example in this instance) stated at some point during this discussion that it was impossible for the likes of Bond and myself to go to heaven due to our sinful ways. I would like to suggest that actually Bond is a model for Christians around the world and a better Christian than 00Beast and his ilk.

My reasoning and logic (alien concepts to some I know) are thus:

Forgetting the likes of the crusades and Spanish Inquisition for a minute the purported central idea of Christianity is supposed to be love for your fellow man - I think I am correct in stating this.

Secondly I presume the reason that Christians like 00Beast force themselves to adhere to all these laws and rules such as skipping the swearing and sex scenes etc is so that ultimately they can go to heaven when they die. I dont really see how 00Beast not watching Molly Peters take her top off behind the glass or Tim telling Kwang to piss off can help his fellow man so I can only conclude that he is doing it for selfish reasons so that God will think well of him and so thus safeguard his place in heaven.

Following 00Beasts doctrine (and I'm presuming he knows what hes talking about - well regarding this at any rate) that Bond can never go to heaven for all his killing then does it not follow therefore that by committing such multiple sins of taking a life to safeguard his fellow man from atomic war or a madman who wants to gas the worlds population that Bond has demonstrated the ultimate sacrifice for mankind. For all his monstrous acts he has damned his soul to burn in hell forever but he has done this to protect the rest of mankind so therefore he his a hero and has demonstrated the same sacrifice as Christ.

Bond has certainly showed more love for his fellow man than the average Christian who is largely concerned with just making sure they grab their own seat in heaven so in my book he has adhered to Jesus' teaching of love for others and self sacrifice far more.

I'm sending this to the Vatican in the morning - St James Bond has a nice ring to it I think.

Alas I do bugger all to help my fellow man so I'm going to burn I'm afraid. I'm sure some of you are overjoyed to hear that!

DaltonCraig007

00Beast, I suggest you document yourself on the Borgias family, even watch the tv series with Jeremy Irons. Shows that even the Pope can be driven by sex, killing and revenge plots.

Oh, and please read some stuff about Pope Pius XII, who refused to take a stand against the Jewish massacre during WW2. Not a very glorious period for Christianity.

echo

CommanderRoss said:
Most recently you've had the affairs in the Catholic church

As a former Catholic, I think it's important to call it exactly what it was: the rape of children and the coverup of those rapes to protect the reputation of the church.

thelivingroyale

DaltonCraig007 said:
00Beast, I suggest you document yourself on the Borgias family, even watch the tv series with Jeremy Irons.

From Die Hard 3? That was him? I saw the Borgia tv show but I never knew he was in it.

Creasy47

@thelivingroyale, Jeremy Irons is in both 'Die Hard 3' and 'The Borgias,' you are correct.

TheWizardOfIce

DaltonCraig007 said:
00Beast, I suggest you document yourself on the Borgias family, even watch the tv series with Jeremy Irons. Shows that even the Pope can be driven by sex, killing and revenge plots.

Oh, and please read some stuff about Pope Pius XII, who refused to take a stand against the Jewish massacre during WW2. Not a very glorious period for Christianity.

Not that I agree with 00Beast about a single thing (the guy even ranks OHMSS bottom) but be fair chaps and let's not lay the crimes of the Catholic church at his door. He's from some sect which I'm sure has plenty worthy of criticism if we knew anything about it but he's not a catholic.

Might as well say the Protestants in Northern Ireland are responsible for the IRAs bombs if you are going to blame what one certain branch of christianity does on everyone else.

(Although obviously you could say the root cause in Northern Ireland is christianity period but that's a different debate altogether).

Following on from my road to Damascus revelation about Bonds sacrifice of his soul for the good of his fellow man I have developed my train of thought further to ask the following question:
What have God and Jesus ever done to save mankind in comparison with Bond?

Bond has saved the world from nuclear Armageddon twice (YOLT and TSWLM) andfrye entire population from extinction (MR) not to mention stopping things like virus omega and a warhead going off on a US air base. That's the entire population saved 3 times over!!!

Compare this to Jesus's efforts over 2000 years and it's a joke. God and Jesus are supposed to be omnipotent but what did they ever do? Just told a few people in the Palestine region! How crap is that? And after that they've done nothing. I imagine the conversation in 1943 going something like this:

'Bloody hell dad that holocaust looks pretty awful. Do think we should do something? What about if I went down there again?'

'Calm down son - we already did the Palestine thing 2000 years ago. I can't just send you down at the drop of a hat. Things need putting in place - Judas to betray you, Pilate to wash his hands, Lazarus to drop dead - it's not easy. You have to think of how it will all play out in the future. You're like Marty Mcfly just wading in without a thought of causality.'

'Yeah but millions of people are being brutally murdered.'

'Dont worry I've got it all sorted. It's bad for the Jews now but in the end then get given their own country so swings and roundabouts.'

'Oh that's nice. At least it all works out well in the end then. Yeah let's just leave them to get on with it then. Another game of Pro Evo? You roll up a joint and I'll get some beers from the fridge.'

thelivingroyale

TheWizardOfIce said:
'Oh that's nice. At least it all works out well in the end then. Yeah let's just leave them to get on with it then. Another game of Pro Evo? You roll up a joint and I'll get some beers from the fridge.'

=)) Jesus sounds like a younger me.

thelordflasheart

Unfortunately these comments have nothing to do with the topic at hand. In addition, they may drive away people who could actually answer the question this thread was created to address - why would a deeply religious person not only watch Bond films but become a huge fan of the films and character when so much of them are completely against their own beliefs? We're at three pages and several days and no one has yet answered that. We've had people explain *how* they watch Bond films but not *why* they watch them - or, more importantly, how they reconcile their beliefs with the morals of the character and film series.

I would respectfully ask that people who post here try to address these issues in their comments. I sincerely believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinions about religions and faith but the title of the thread is not "Christianity - does it make sense to believe in it?". By commenting on issues like that, and not how religious people reconcile their fandom and faith, I fear we will alienate or insult the very members who can best address this.

Perhaps someone should create a separate thread if they want to debate the merits of religions themselves.

TheWizardOfIce

Fair comment Lordflasheart.

The balls in your court religious people.

00Beast

TheWizardOfIce said:
I'm bored of all this God exists/no he doesn't argument. No one is going to change anyone's mind and as far as I'm concerned 00Beast can pass his short time on this planet in whatever way he chooses. It's his funeral at the end of day - I certainly couldn't give a toss about trying to convert people.

I'd like to change tack and present if I may a thesis I have formulated over the last few days of this debate regarding Bond and religion.

00Beast (dont get irate - I'm not singling you out here, you are just a convenient example in this instance) stated at some point during this discussion that it was impossible for the likes of Bond and myself to go to heaven due to our sinful ways. I would like to suggest that actually Bond is a model for Christians around the world and a better Christian than 00Beast and his ilk.

My reasoning and logic (alien concepts to some I know) are thus:

Forgetting the likes of the crusades and Spanish Inquisition for a minute the purported central idea of Christianity is supposed to be love for your fellow man - I think I am correct in stating this.

Secondly I presume the reason that Christians like 00Beast force themselves to adhere to all these laws and rules such as skipping the swearing and sex scenes etc is so that ultimately they can go to heaven when they die. I dont really see how 00Beast not watching Molly Peters take her top off behind the glass or Tim telling Kwang to piss off can help his fellow man so I can only conclude that he is doing it for selfish reasons so that God will think well of him and so thus safeguard his place in heaven.

Following 00Beasts doctrine (and I'm presuming he knows what hes talking about - well regarding this at any rate) that Bond can never go to heaven for all his killing then does it not follow therefore that by committing such multiple sins of taking a life to safeguard his fellow man from atomic war or a madman who wants to gas the worlds population that Bond has demonstrated the ultimate sacrifice for mankind. For all his monstrous acts he has damned his soul to burn in hell forever but he has done this to protect the rest of mankind so therefore he his a hero and has demonstrated the same sacrifice as Christ.

Bond has certainly showed more love for his fellow man than the average Christian who is largely concerned with just making sure they grab their own seat in heaven so in my book he has adhered to Jesus' teaching of love for others and self sacrifice far more.

I'm sending this to the Vatican in the morning - St James Bond has a nice ring to it I think.

Alas I do bugger all to help my fellow man so I'm going to burn I'm afraid. I'm sure some of you are overjoyed to hear that!

Oh dear......not at all. If I have presented that image in my posts, then my mistake, but hear this. Christians are not out to ensure that they steer clear of everyone else so that they can "grab their seat in heaven" as you put it. Furthermore, we do believe in sacrificing for others, and doing things to help our fellow man, especially those who are in desperate need. Such as just the other day, our youth group went out to an elderly couple's house and spent time in the heat of the day cleaning up their yard and doing yardwork because they themselves really couldn't do the work at their age. Maybe that's not a "save the world" sacrifice, but it's something that Jesus would have done. The need was there, so we decided to help. A small example sure, but nonetheless one which I'm sure really helped these people who couldn't do it themselves. We're not like the Pharises and religious priests of the Bible times who focused only on pointing out the flaws in others, believing that they were the most righteous, and looked down upon others because they were outside of the faith. I might fall into the trap of sometimes thinking myself better than one who is outside the church, but the fact of the matter is, we all sin, even without meaning to, so I'm no exception. We are human after all, it's difficult to sometimes not hold a higher opinion of yourself, and that's why at church we are taught to treat everyone well and listen to what they believe because that's exactly what Jesus did. His mission wasn't to be with the religiously righteous and put himself up on a stage, but rather to teach to those which needed to hear His words the most, and to be a servant rather than a big wheel around town.

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