What you thought when you saw CR and QoS teaser trailers?

Getafix

All very true. Any one who claims QoS was not influenced by Bourne is clearly off their rocker.

chuck007

CraigMooreOHMSS said:
A Hitchcockian influence can be felt in From Russia With Love in parts.
But you just proved my point, the reason those films are strong is that they don't allow their influences to overpower them. I fail to see your reasoning on LTK or TND though. How exactly is Miami Vice an influence on LTK?

IMO the first 4 movies Connery era have strong influence from North by Northwest

the fashion, latin neighborhood , drug wars, the sea scenes, those are my reasons that LTK is Miami Vice produced by EON...maybe its just me my friend, if you LTK is not influenced by Miami Vice its okay...but to me its very much highly get influence from Miami VIce. I sometimes imagined if the Bond theme in LTK replaced by Miami Vice themes is very much support the stories.

CraigMooreOHMSS said:
And Tomorrow Never Dies is nothing like a John Woo film. Granted, a lot of bullets are fired and there's a priority on action over story, but there's no religious themes, focus on brotherhood, freeze frame close ups, or an overuse of slow motion. Enlighten me as to how you came to that conclusion?

with the addition scenes where James bond riding a motorcycle chasing by helicopter, and try to kill bond with its helicopter rotor,that scenes its very much influenced by John woo movies,

yes there is no religious themes, focus on brotherhood, freeze frame close ups, or an overuse of slow motion but to me TND is moderately influenced by John woo films

007RogerMoore

I've seen many people say that TMWTGG is a Kung Fu ripoff. I agree that one five minute sequence is, and possibly the asian locations, but that's it. I don't think that the rest of the movie resembles a martial arts movie at all. I also don't think the Bruce Lee influence is very noticeable in comparision to the way the Bourne trilogy influenced Bourne Royale and Quantum Of Bourne.

And I think LTK is very influenced by Miami Vice, Die Hard and Lethal Weapon. They even used Michael Kames and several actors from atleast DH and LW.

CraigMooreOHMSS

chuck007 said:

CraigMooreOHMSS said:
A Hitchcockian influence can be felt in From Russia With Love in parts.
But you just proved my point, the reason those films are strong is that they don't allow their influences to overpower them. I fail to see your reasoning on LTK or TND though. How exactly is Miami Vice an influence on LTK?

IMO the first 4 movies Connery era have strong influence from North by Northwest

the fashion, latin neighborhood , drug wars, the sea scenes, those are my reasons that LTK is Miami Vice produced by EON...maybe its just me my friend, if you LTK is not influenced by Miami Vice its okay...but to me its very much highly get influence from Miami VIce. I sometimes imagined if the Bond theme in LTK replaced by Miami Vice themes is very much support the stories.

CraigMooreOHMSS said:
And Tomorrow Never Dies is nothing like a John Woo film. Granted, a lot of bullets are fired and there's a priority on action over story, but there's no religious themes, focus on brotherhood, freeze frame close ups, or an overuse of slow motion. Enlighten me as to how you came to that conclusion?

with the addition scenes where James bond riding a motorcycle chasing by helicopter, and try to kill bond with its helicopter rotor,that scenes its very much influenced by John woo movies,

yes there is no religious themes, focus on brotherhood, freeze frame close ups, or an overuse of slow motion but to me TND is moderately influenced by John woo films

Fair enough my friend, I personally don't see it but if you do, then that's cool.

CraigMooreOHMSS

007RogerMoore said:

And I think LTK is very influenced by Miami Vice, Die Hard and Lethal Weapon. They even used Michael Kames and several actors from atleast DH and LW.

Yeah, that I will agree with. Kamen gave the film a similar sound to both of those franchises.

thelivingroyale

chuck007 said:

SaintMark said:

thelivingroyale said:

SaintMark said:
CR's trailer brought us the expectation of a new 007.

QoB the trailer was more coherent as the actual movie and almost as long. :D

(Richard Pearson editor for QoB and The Bourne supremacy, Dan Bradley director second unit in Bourne Ultimatum & Supremacy as stunt coordinator. And somebody tell me that there was NO direct link between the Bourne movies en Quantum of Bourne) O:-)

Quantum of Bourne... Do you mind if I use that?

Feel free............. O:-)

i found very funny for people said that CR and QOS influenced by Bourne, you guys thinks James Bond before Craig involvement is pure original concept?, seriously there is no James Bond film that didn't rip off from other movies

I didn't mention CR. I said QOS, which I think is influenced by Bourne and it shows. Like somebody has already said, it's one of the films where the influence is more obvious.

SaintMark

CraigMooreOHMSS said:

chuck007 said:

SaintMark said:

thelivingroyale said:

SaintMark said:
CR's trailer brought us the expectation of a new 007.

QoB the trailer was more coherent as the actual movie and almost as long. :D

(Richard Pearson editor for QoB and The Bourne supremacy, Dan Bradley director second unit in Bourne Ultimatum & Supremacy as stunt coordinator. And somebody tell me that there was NO direct link between the Bourne movies en Quantum of Bourne) O:-)

Quantum of Bourne... Do you mind if I use that?

Feel free............. O:-)

i found very funny for people said that CR and QOS influenced by Bourne, you guys thinks James Bond before Craig involvement is pure original concept?, seriously there is no James Bond film that didn't rip off from other movies

Yep, not gunna deny that one. But most are pretty subtle. You'll notice a trend that the weaker Bond films are the ones that are blatant in what they are influenced by.

Moonraker - Star Wars, not true it is nothing like SW but it lifted on the popularity of scifi which is actually smart business sense. If it really was influenced by itself with all those treats from space 007 was bound to get up there and kick Darth Drax his behind.
Die Another Day - xXx are both from 2002 and were actually in competition, guess who won?
Quantum of Bourne - Bourne did it better.

quote]

Kind regards O:-)

NicNac

Bourne-esque? Is that referring to the shakey camera work? I've only seen one Bourne film so I'm not up on the subject, but when I hear about Bourne and it's camera work I think about how Bourne may have ripped off 'Gladiator' or something. Because that kind of thing was done before Bourne.

Can we therefore refer to QOS as being Gladiator-esque?

All these influences..they confuse me.

Zekidk

NicNac said:
Bourne-esque? Is that referring to the shakey camera work? I've only seen one Bourne film so I'm not up on the subject, but when I hear about Bourne and it's camera work I think about how Bourne may have ripped off 'Gladiator' or something.

Which scenes in 'Gladiator' are you referring to? Because I can't remember having any problems following what was going on, unlike Bourne 2 and 3 and QoS.

CraigMooreOHMSS

@SaintMark. Yeah I take back the xXx quote then, should of researched the release date shouldn't I. And I agree Bourne did it better.

But as regards Moonraker, all the things you say actually reflect the heavy influence, and its proven when you say it was "smart business". Star Wars is synonymous with Space Stations and laser battles, so if they're carried over to Moonraker then it's acceptable to say it was influenced by Star Wars.

SaintMark

CraigMooreOHMSS said:
@SaintMark. Yeah I take back the xXx quote then, should of researched the release date shouldn't I. And I agree Bourne did it better.

But as regards Moonraker, all the things you say actually reflect the heavy influence, and its proven when you say it was "smart business". Star Wars is synonymous with Space Stations and laser battles, so if they're carried over to Moonraker then it's acceptable to say it was influenced by Star Wars.

I did acknowledge your statement on SW when young Bondwalker took care with a force full exit of Darth Drax. :D

CraigMooreOHMSS

SaintMark said:

CraigMooreOHMSS said:
@SaintMark. Yeah I take back the xXx quote then, should of researched the release date shouldn't I. And I agree Bourne did it better.

But as regards Moonraker, all the things you say actually reflect the heavy influence, and its proven when you say it was "smart business". Star Wars is synonymous with Space Stations and laser battles, so if they're carried over to Moonraker then it's acceptable to say it was influenced by Star Wars.

I did acknowledge your statement on SW when young Bondwalker took care with a force full exit of Darth Drax. :D

Bummer, sorry, it's just not my day today as regards concentration!

Baltimore_007

I thought I'd take a look at the QOS trailer actually then discovered I can't actually get audio at the moment, so it wouldn't be much use with just visuals, I must get round to another viewing sometime, said it before you can never really read too much into any movie on the basis of a minute or so of a sneak preview, James Bond or anything else for that matter, I always call the pre credit sequences of Bond films teasers (sometimes) and trailers,.. trailers. I never call them teasers, just something not done

Creasy47

@Zekidk, while I enjoyed Safe House, I agree that some of the car chase scenes were impossible to follow.

That's why I don't care for the Liam Neeson film 'Unknown' - the fight scenes are completely choppy and incoherent.

echo

thelivingroyale said:
I didn't mention CR. I said QOS, which I think is influenced by Bourne and it shows. Like somebody has already said, it's one of the films where the influence is more obvious.

"His name's Jaws. He kills people."

Let's face it, since the '70s, the Bond films have been trend followers, not trendsetters.

Bourne clearly influenced QoS, especially in the editing and fight sequence in Haiti.

But both CR and QoS were influenced by 9/11 (and SF, presumably, by the London bombings). CR makes explicit reference to 9/11. The world had gotten more serious during DAD's preproduction, and another film in that vein at that point in time would have been...well, tacky.

haserot

in the world of cinema, James Bond is often times referred to as the original action adventure hero - at least the first big one.... since 1962 - and lets keep that date in mind, how many imitators or other films have been influenced by Bond?... A LOT.... it's been 50 years - and after all that time, it's hard to be original anymore... you just gotta take whats there, and find ways to do it better, or give it your own personal touch..... so i don't look for Bond films to tread new ground technically, or go where no other films have gone before... i just want to be entertained.... so if they borrow stuff from other films - so be it... films do it all the time... where would cinema be if films didn't start doing what George Lucas pioneered with special effects technology in Star Wars?.....

while QOS was heavily influenced by Bourne - i dont believe it was written to be... but when a director hires on people who worked on the Bourne films, to give him the style he wants - what can you do... it's still a Bond film first to me, regardless of what it's "ripping off".... i think had the action scenes been handled better, then there would be less of this Bourne comparison going on.... in terms of the fighting - well.. thats how i would expect a real secret agent in today's world to fight - i can't remember the name of that specific fighting style, but a lot of other films use it too - not just Bourne, or Bond... let's face it, if Bond in QOS or CR were still using cheap Judo throws to outmatch his opponents - he'd look silly first off, and secondly - he'd be dead..... it works for the older movies, but times have changed, and that sort of thing just isnt believable anymore..

thelivingroyale

echo said:

thelivingroyale said:
I didn't mention CR. I said QOS, which I think is influenced by Bourne and it shows. Like somebody has already said, it's one of the films where the influence is more obvious.

"His name's Jaws. He kills people."

Let's face it, since the '70s, the Bond films have been trend followers, not trendsetters.

Bourne clearly influenced QoS, especially in the editing and fight sequence in Haiti.

But both CR and QoS were influenced by 9/11 (and SF, presumably, by the London bombings). CR makes explicit reference to 9/11. The world had gotten more serious during DAD's preproduction, and another film in that vein at that point in time would have been...well, tacky.

Ah, another person who assumes I want DAD 2 because I don't like QOS. I didn't say they should've made a film like DAD. They should've tried to make it more like CR.

Anyway, I know the Bond films follow trends as well as setting them, but this is one of the films where it's more obvious, like MR.

QsAssistant

When I first saw the CR trailer I was angered by the new Bond. Didn't think DC was anything like Bond... I was wrong.
When I first saw the QoS I was pumped for it, couldn't wait. Then the movie came out and was good but not as good as it's trailer.

DarthDimi

007RogerMoore said:
I've seen many people say that TMWTGG is a Kung Fu ripoff. I agree that one five minute sequence is, and possibly the asian locations, but that's it. I don't think that the rest of the movie resembles a martial arts movie at all. I also don't think the Bruce Lee influence is very noticeable in comparision to the way the Bourne trilogy influenced Bourne Royale and Quantum Of Bourne.

And I think LTK is very influenced by Miami Vice, Die Hard and Lethal Weapon. They even used Michael Kames and several actors from atleast DH and LW.

Uncalled for, I think. There's virtually no element in CR that's even remotely connected to or inspired by the Bourne films. As far as QoS is concerned, yes, I can see where Bourne comes into play but CR: no! Neither in terms of cinematography nor story telling does a comparison between CR and Bourne make more sense than one between From Russia With Love and Star Trek.

echo

I think some people jump to Bourne parallels with CR because Craig is a much more serious Bond than Brosnan and Moore, conveniently forgetting Dalton, Lazenby, and early Connery all featured serious spies, not to mention the novels.

The irony is that the Bourne novels read like--and were obviously inspired by--the more over-the-top Bond films.

QoS I will grant the Bourne-sayers. The editing and the Haiti fight both scream Bourne. But then Forster is a bit of a hack.

DaltonCraig007

echo said:
conveniently forgetting Dalton, Lazenby, and early Connery all featured serious spies, not to mention the novels.

each of these films had 5 times the amount of (memorable) one liners than in CR, all of them had Q, Moneypenny, gadgets, the Bond theme during action scenes, dancing women in the credit sequence, the gun barrel at the start......

little things that differenciates Bond films from other action flicks that were missing in CR

echo

A leaner, tougher Bond doesn't automatically equal Bourne. Moneypenny and Boothroyd do not feature in many of the novels and one-liners never do, as examples.

And there was a story-specific reason why the Bond theme was dialed back in CR.

DaltonCraig007

echo said:
And there was a story-specific reason why the Bond theme was dialed back in CR.

most dumb argument I've ever heard. Hitler had his reasons to exterminate the jews, does that make his act acceptable ? there was a reason to film the parasurfing scene in DAD, does that make the scene acceptable ?

simply because there was a reason for something, it doesn't make it acceptable. everything that ever happened on this planet had a reason. So you agree with the mass killing of jews because there was a reason for it ?

there are reasons to turn Bond into a female character, do they make that change acceptable ?

saying 'there was a reason for that' is simply laughable and simple-minded. I have my reasons to kill people I don't like, so by your argument it is acceptable for me to kill them because I have reasons to kill them ?

does it ever occur to you that 'reasons' can be bad and wrong ?

your 'argument' is a non-argument, since everything has a reason, but that doesn't automaticly make everything acceptable.

there are reasons for EON to cancel the release of Skyfall, so do these reasons make this decision acceptable ?

JWESTBROOK

DaltonCraig007 said:

echo said:
And there was a story-specific reason why the Bond theme was dialed back in CR.

does it ever occur to you that 'reasons' can be bad and wrong ?

Why are you leaving out the possibilities were good and right? Just because you disagree with their reasoning doesn't mean they are wrong. It might be wrong to you, but it could very easily be right to someone else.

Just leave it, please. Why we must redefine 'opinions' on every thread is unknown to me. Don't openly attack a user for their ideas.

Back to kindergarten: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

DaltonCraig007

JWESTBROOK said:

DaltonCraig007 said:

echo said:
And there was a story-specific reason why the Bond theme was dialed back in CR.

does it ever occur to you that 'reasons' can be bad and wrong ?

Why are you leaving out the possibilities were good and right?

he didn't say the reasons were good and right, he simply said 'there was a reason'. What kind of absurd statement is that ? I can have reasons to torture my cat, it doesn't make it acceptable because of that.

there was a reason for the invisible car in DAD, so by his argument that gadget is acceptable because it had a reason for it.

so for @echo, everything that ever happened on earth is acceptable because they all had their reasons, be it the rwandan genocide, or simply filming the cgi parasurfing scene in DAD.

his argument negates any from of criticism on anything, since because there is a reason for everything, it is automaticly a good thing.

JWESTBROOK

DaltonCraig007 said:

JWESTBROOK said:

DaltonCraig007 said:

echo said:
And there was a story-specific reason why the Bond theme was dialed back in CR.

does it ever occur to you that 'reasons' can be bad and wrong ?

Why are you leaving out the possibilities were good and right?

his argument negates any from of criticism on anything, since because there is a reason for everything, it is automaticly a good thing.

If I'm not mistaken, he never stated it was a good thing, whatever reason it was. He just said there was a reason. Your assuming he thinks it was a good thing.

Stop fishing for arguments, you make yourself look silly.

DaltonCraig007

JWESTBROOK said:

DaltonCraig007 said:

JWESTBROOK said:

DaltonCraig007 said:

echo said:
And there was a story-specific reason why the Bond theme was dialed back in CR.

does it ever occur to you that 'reasons' can be bad and wrong ?

Why are you leaving out the possibilities were good and right?

his argument negates any from of criticism on anything, since because there is a reason for everything, it is automaticly a good thing.

If I'm not mistaken, he never stated it was a good thing, whatever reason it was. He just said there was a reason. Your assuming he thinks it was a good thing.

look at the posts again. I complained about the lack of Bond theme in CR, and he answered with 'there was a reason for that'... what kind of argument is that ? I can't complain about the lack of Bond theme because 'there was a reason' for the Bond theme to be used less ? so going by his argument, no-one can complain about DAD's invisible car or DAD's parasurfing scene because 'there were reasons' for their inclusion in the film.

I am simply saying his post was ridiculous. he answered my critic with 'there a reason for that to happen'. It's just absurd.

chuck007

DaltonCraig007 said:

I am simply saying his post was ridiculous. he answered my critic with 'there a reason for that to happen'. It's just absurd.

yeah right, only DaltonCraig007 is genius around here only him can post "dumb & absurb" about other member posting, but alwayst protest if his comment being attack...

DaltonCraig007

chuck007 said:
yeah right, only DaltonCraig007 is genius around here only him can post "dumb & absurb" about other member posting,

what on earth are you on about ? are you insane ? calm down and don't post utter nonsense like you just did...... I was simply saying @echo's argument was a non-argument.

his argument *is* ridiculous, whichever way you look at it. I can make the same argument with DAD's invisible car. someone complains about that gadget ? I answer with 'there was a reason for the movie to have an invisible car'. see how absurd such argument is ?

I see you are backing @echo because he basicly said any criticism on CR is wrong because 'everything that happened in the film had a reason'.... obviously that pleases the Craig fanboys.

chuck007

DaltonCraig007 said:

chuck007 said:
yeah right, only DaltonCraig007 is genius around here only him can post "dumb & absurb" about other member posting,

what on earth are you on about ? are you insane ? calm down and don't post utter nonsense like you just did...... I was simply saying @echo's argument was a non-argument.

well i m tired people like you bashing/judging other people comment with as dumb and non-arqumen, your comment nonsense either pal, if anyonse disagree with you doesn't meant his opinion dumb like you said brother...

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