Did Fleming know that Bond movies would be successful?

echo

In one of the recent Skyfall articles, Barbara Broccoli is quoted as saying that Fleming told Cubby that Eon would eventually have to make up their own Bond stories. Is this true or is this apocryphal? What is the origin of this quote?

Since Fleming died before GF's release, he couldn't have foreseen Bondmania, could he?

CraigMooreOHMSS

I wouldn't say Fleming had any idea that Bond would have taken off as well as it did. I'd take anything Babs says with a pinch of salt, she's very much a businesswoman, and focuses more on the business end of things more than Cubby ever did. But I wouldn't be surprised if Fleming had a gut feeling, he was unsure of Connery at first as far as I recall, but his opinion swayed after the series began, so maybe he did have an idea. Stories like these were suddenly becoming popular, so it wouldn't be ridiculous to think that.

haserot

CraigMooreOHMSS said:
...she's very much a businesswoman, and focuses more on the business end of things more than Cubby ever did.

actually, Cubby was the business minded one...

between Cubby and Harry.. Cubby handled the numbers, while Harry focused on the creative aspect of production.

CraigMooreOHMSS

@haserot I know that, but Babs is even more business like than Cubby was. Cubby at least had a grasp on what the series was about while still being a numbers guy. Babs is just your stereotypical bitchy businesswoman these days.

SirHenryLeeChaChing

CraigMooreOHMSS said:
@haserot I know that, but Babs is even more business like than Cubby was. Cubby at least had a grasp on what the series was about while still being a numbers guy. Babs is just your stereotypical bitchy businesswoman these days.

Why do you say that? She could be a very nice person for all we know, but business is business and this is her livelihood. Just curious.

I got the feeling that Fleming thought the film adaptations of his books could be successful, but I don't think he had any idea it would become what it did much less immortal.

DaltonCraig007

SirHenryLeeChaChing said:

CraigMooreOHMSS said:
@haserot I know that, but Babs is even more business like than Cubby was. Cubby at least had a grasp on what the series was about while still being a numbers guy. Babs is just your stereotypical bitchy businesswoman these days.

Why do you say that? She could be a very nice person for all we know, but business is business and this is her livelihood. Just curious.

Well Barbara Broccoli clearly doesn't know a thing about James Bond.... all she wants to do is infuse all her pro-feminist and pro-PC propaganda in the franchise she inherited of... Babs is a really lucky woman... IMO the franchise will be in better hands once Babs is gone.... sadly that won't be the case anytime soon..... :((

While Babs is clearly a good business woman, she is completly incompetent when it comes to James Bond.

wildboonjive

I disagree. I think she is quite competent and very much has good ideas about a lot of things. I may not agree with everything she does, but I think she nonetheless deserves a lot of credit. She was the one who pushed for Daniel Craig more than anyone, and as far as I'm concerned, she was right. She single-handedly produced the tanker truck chase in LTK, which I think is one of the best sequences in the whole series. She's a big fan of Fleming and understands the importance of always keeping that around and going back to it. She has a high regard for both OHMSS and Dalton. Can't fault her at all.

On a side note, I've had the pleasure of meeting both her and Wilson and she is an extremely charming and pleasant person. She's very conversational and very smart. Wilson on the other hand is quite the opposite I'm afraid to say (not referring to the smarts). He's quite off-putting and not particularly friendly.

SirHenryLeeChaChing

DaltonCraig007 said:

SirHenryLeeChaChing said:

CraigMooreOHMSS said:
@haserot I know that, but Babs is even more business like than Cubby was. Cubby at least had a grasp on what the series was about while still being a numbers guy. Babs is just your stereotypical bitchy businesswoman these days.

Why do you say that? She could be a very nice person for all we know, but business is business and this is her livelihood. Just curious.

Well Barbara Broccoli clearly doesn't know a thing about James Bond.... all she wants to do is infuse all her pro-feminist and pro-PC propaganda in the franchise she inherited of... Babs is a really lucky woman... IMO the franchise will be in better hands once Babs is gone.... sadly that won't be the case anytime soon..... :((

While Babs is clearly a good business woman, she is completely incompetent when it comes to James Bond.

DC, has she ever actually spoken of this or are you just assuming that based on what has been on screen? I might believe that a lot more if she had writing credits, but as far as I know she doesn't write the screenplays.

No matter how one looks at it, this is a very different time. Bond movies always seemed to appeal to a mostly male point of view but times have changed. Almost every woman I ever knew growing up had no interest in Bond films because of that, the only reason my mother would go with my father is because she said that Sean "made her weak in the knees", otherwise she felt that it was a "man thing". Most women I knew going up into the 1990's felt that way. If we look at Cubby's last film in GoldenEye, where we see women all of a sudden much more empowered rather than screaming "James!" and acting generally helpless, I'd have to say he at least recognized that times were changing and that getting more women in the seats was good for business. So maybe, just maybe, Barbara isn't solely to blame for what male Bond fans perceive and this was a family decision.

DaltonCraig007

I'm sure it's Babs who wanted all the shirtless Craig scenes, the trunks scene with all the close-ups of Craig's body while he makes a silly OTT feminine walk.

SirHenryLeeChaChing

DaltonCraig007 said:
I'm sure it's Babs who wanted all the shirtless Craig scenes, the trunks scene with all the close-ups of Craig's body while he makes a silly OTT feminine walk.

Let me tell you this, my mother wanted to see and loved all those kinds of scenes with Connery. Plenty of these scenes in DN, TB, and YOLT too and she enjoyed every one of them. We had a good relationship and as adults she would discuss those things with me. Were all those scenes also Barbara's idea? I have to doubt that to be honest. Like you said, she is a smart businesswoman and knows what women want to see when they plunk down their money, and they want to see Craig's body as well as his face. Maybe she does too, and why not, she's a woman. Should they now eliminate any scenes where he is in bed with a woman, or in an aquatic environment?

DaltonCraig007

no, but there was no need to the dramatic music when Bond emerges from the water, nor the OTT lighting as if Bond was a demi-god, nor the OTT feminine walk from Craig, nor the OTT extreme close-ups of his body.

I don't recall any OTT emphasis on Connery when he was shirtless in TB or DN...

CommanderRoss

DaltonCraig007 said:
no, but there was no need to the dramatic music when Bond emerges from the water, nor the OTT lighting as if Bond was a demi-god, nor the OTT feminine walk from Craig, nor the OTT extreme close-ups of his body.

I don't recall any OTT emphasis on Connery when he was shirtless in TB or DN...

And you actually think Babs said to Campbell ' please, put the lights up like that' and ' please, put in some dramatic music'! Do you always blame the
producers for things like that? Or is that the director's decision. And if so, do you now think Martin Campbell is over-feminist?

SirHenryLeeChaChing

Well, I certainly don't think Craig walks with a swish so that statement is kind of OTT right there.

I agree with the Commander 100%, it seems you are looking to make her the scapegoat for what you don't like about the Craig era. Hopefully you will find SkyFall more to your liking.

OHMSS69

The best decision Babs made was firing Brosnan and rebooting the series with craig. However, this decision was trumped by the train wreck QoS. Maybe (and we all hope ) that Skyfall will prove that third time's the charm...

echo

I think Babs and MGW balance each other out nicely.

darren_blacksmith

Although money isn't everything, its really sad that Flemming didn't live to enjoy the true financial potential of his creation. And 100 times more sad for the fans that he wasn't able to continue writing more stories. Although I suspect that eventually the quality would have dropped, or his heart would no longer have been in it. Most highly creative people have an era where they are at the height of their powers, and then the moment kind of passes and they can't seem to re-capture the magic.

SirHenryLeeChaChing

DaltonCraig007 said:
no, but there was no need to the dramatic music when Bond emerges from the water, nor the OTT lighting as if Bond was a demi-god, nor the OTT feminine walk from Craig, nor the OTT extreme close-ups of his body.

I don't recall any OTT emphasis on Connery when he was shirtless in TB or DN...

Like the closeups of his hairy chest, right?

CraigMooreOHMSS

What I'm simply saying is that Babs is more focused on the business end of things these days. Both her and Wilson handled the Brosnan affair very badly and I don't blame Pierce for being bitter even though some of his later comments were just spiteful. Dalton was dealt with in similar fashion 10 years earlier. Cubby, while an astute businessman in his own right, was just as much responsible for a lot of the major creative decisions as Saltzman. I apologise for labelling Babs bitchy, poor wording on my behalf. But after QOS, I think she's lost sight of the goals Cubby and Saltzman and later, in some aspects, Wilson had with the series. Someone said she's responsible for the LTK tanker chase, and fair enough, she is, but she had Cubby for guidance at that time. With respect though, the producers did give us Casino Royale, but I hope it's not a once off. QOS lacked the spark. Skyfall will show whether Babs is able to carry on Cubby's legacy or not. Bond needs to be his own series while being able to compete with others, with the Craig era we've had too much mimicking of other series'. Time for Bond to go back to being Bond again.

thelordflasheart

Sigh...

The viciousness with which some people view Barbara Broccoli is really sad. The need to somehow get people to believe that Cubby=brilliant and Babs=incompetent is so OTT that it really makes me question whether or not someone holding those views can have a reasonable discussion about the production of the films.

During Cubby's tenure were all the films equally amazing? No, of course not - regardless of what style of Bond film you like there was enough variation that at least some of the films will be dramatically different from what you consider a "real" Bond film. As for the BB era look at how different DAD is from CR...they're about as far apart in tone (and some would say quality) as any other two films from the franchise.

Some Bond films will have some elements that you like, some won't. To say that it's because the film-makers are idiots or don't understand Bond is, quite frankly, pretentious and selfish. My view of Bond isn't the only "real" one and neither is yours. Calm down, enjoy the good parts of the films, and realize that that there will be several more Bond films that are more to your tastes in the future.

CraigMooreOHMSS

@thelordflashheart Oh no, she's definitely not incompetent. But so far, there's been just as much bad as there has been good under her. And neither am I saying that she doesn't understand Bond, but rather is she changing the series so much that it is a Bourne knock-off rather than allowing it to stand on its own two feet stylistically, something the Cubby films were able to do while still varying in tone.

Reasonable discussion is not dead after all.

Kennon

Until LTK Bond films used to be their own genre. Afterwards it seems they lost that quality to a degree and became more and more generic action flicks. But both CR and QOS show they could gain their own ground back once more if they try. Bonds don't have to be mindless action stuff; they could bring back the suspense and still succeed.

bondsum

DaltonCraig007 said:
Well Barbara Broccoli clearly doesn't know a thing about James Bond....

And clearly the reason why the Brosnan Bonds were so underwhelming. But you like those, don't ya, so it kind of derails your own argument!

DaltonCraig007

bondsum said:

DaltonCraig007 said:
Well Barbara Broccoli clearly doesn't know a thing about James Bond....

And clearly the reason why the Brosnan Bonds were so underwhelming. But you like those, don't ya, so it kind of derails your own argument!

but I admit there are some big problems in the Brosnan films.

NicNac

Am I right in saying Fleming died when Goldfinger was in production? If so I believe he had a very good idea that Bondmania was about to erupt. Two successful films and one on the way in consecutive years?

I think it's fair to say Fleming may well have made an off the cuff comment along the lines of 'At this rate you will have to start making your own stories up' because as far as he (or Cubby) knew in 1964 there was going to be one film a year (Cubby did say as much). As a result the original stories would be finished by the mid 70s.

I can believe such a comment was probably made, especially by a man who may have known he wasn't going to live a long life.

As for BB I think we should be grateful that she does have control of the franchise. Who knows what someone without a care for Cubby's legacy would make of it if they had control?

BAIN123

Even if Fleming had an inkling "Bondmania" was going to explode before he died I don't think he (nor anybody) would have anticipated exactly HOW popular Bond would become thanks to the films.

If you'd have told him Bond movies were still going to be made in 2012 I suspect he would have laughed in your face.

Samuel001

NicNac said:
Am I right in saying Fleming died when Goldfinger was in production?

In post-production actually, just a month before release. I too can see Fleming making such a remark. I think even he knew the world may have been on the cusp of something big with Bond.

I wonder what he thought of what he saw of the film, compared to the other two?

BAIN123

Samuel001 said:

NicNac said:
Am I right in saying Fleming died when Goldfinger was in production?

In post-production actually, just a month before release. I too can see Fleming making such a remark. I think even he knew the world may have been on the cusp of something big with Bond.

I wonder what he thought of what he saw of the film, compared to the other two?

I know Fleming had a big ego and claimed to make "the spy story to end all spy stories". He already had a taster of Bond's global success thanks to his books. BUT I find it hard to believe he could imagine Bond STILL being made 50 years later. Maybe I'm underestimating him?

Kennon

Wasn't Fleming also after getting Bond on tv? Back then the typical number of episodes used to be between 20 and 30 or so, and Fleming had already done scripts for a project that fell through later and reworked this into some of his short stories. I think he perhaps was well aware how much stuff the entertainment industry needed to chew on and how fast his own work could have been used up. That it held as long as it did was only due to the series taking brakes and trying to avoid flooding its own market. If Bond on tv had taken off Fleming's books would just about made up one season. If the films had come out every year we'd also long since have needed fresh input.

CraigMooreOHMSS

BAIN123 said:

Samuel001 said:

NicNac said:
Am I right in saying Fleming died when Goldfinger was in production?

In post-production actually, just a month before release. I too can see Fleming making such a remark. I think even he knew the world may have been on the cusp of something big with Bond.

I wonder what he thought of what he saw of the film, compared to the other two?

I know Fleming had a big ego and claimed to make "the spy story to end all spy stories". He already had a taster of Bond's global success thanks to his books. BUT I find it hard to believe he could imagine Bond STILL being made 50 years later. Maybe I'm underestimating him?

Would anyone disagree that he made that? ;)

thelivingroyale

DaltonCraig007 said:
I'm sure it's Babs who wanted all the shirtless Craig scenes, the trunks scene with all the close-ups of Craig's body while he makes a silly OTT feminine walk.

She does seem to fancy Craig.

Lancaster007

I know that Fleming told the producers they could have the title 'The Spy Who Loved Me' but they would have to make up their own story, and being as this was a latter Bond book and there were plenty more to film, I'm sure he hoped the series would continue for many years to come. Also they were making them yearly then, taking the available books into the mid 70s. I don't think Fleming or anyone could have foreseen how big they would become.

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