craig is (a little bit) overrated

thelivingroyale

After watching CR and QOS again, I've come to this conclusion, Daniel Craig is overrated. I always thought Connery was a tiny bit overrated, but not as much as Craig. I like Craig, I do, I really enjoyed CR (I hated QOS but thats not the point right now). But I really don't see whats so special about craig. He just seems like Dalton but more of an action man, I enjoy this version of bond but I don't think its the best ever. Craig is 3rd on my list (1st Dalton, 2nd Brosnan/connery in a tie), he just seems average to me. Everybody talks about how he saved the franchise when the franchise was in no danger of ending after DAD (I hate DAD but it did well at the box office and got decent enough reviews at the time). And to be honest, I'm sick of people praising his every move. I know people have opinions but I find him overrated. I'm looking forward to skyfall, it might even change my opinion, but until then I'm sticking by this. I'm not going to go join one of those stupid places like craigisnotbond but I don't think he's as good as some people say.

Germanlady

thelivingroyale said:

One more thing, I don't want this thread to turn into another "craig fans vs anti craig fans" thread, so try not to argue too much.

So what else do you imagine can possibly happen and what is the purpose of this thread to begin with, if not another discussion pro and contra?

bondbat007

Well im sorry but I think Craig is a terrific Bond and the beat "actor" since Dalton. I'm really looking forward to his performance in Skyfall

RogueAgent

title of the thread does not help you wanting to avoid arguements about DC. Thats me done on this thread! good luck all! lol!

timmer

Never mind Craig. Blasphemy was commited in his 2nd line.
:O Sean over-rated?! Perfection cannot be over-rated!

DarthDimi

thelivingroyale said:
After watching CR and QOS again, I've come to this conclusion, daniel craig is overrated.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. It would be wise though not to hold too strong to an opinion. It can easily be countered by other opinions. Will you accept that?

thelivingroyale said:
I always thought connery was overrated

Seriously? Okay, another opinion but quite a controversial one IMO. I suggest you watch FRWL or TB again any one of these days. You may find that there's no substitute for Connery, or so I think. (my opinion ;-) )

thelivingroyale said:
I like craig, I do, I really enjoyed CR (I hated QOS but thats not the point right now). But I really don't see whats so special about craig.

Craig is a somewhat different Bond than the others. He began his 007 career fighting off naysayers who attacked him primarily on his looks. Then he brought some muscles and brawler moves to the show. The sterile, conventionally handsome, easy-to-swallow Bonds of the past were suddenly replaced by this imperfect, brutal Bond. In many people's minds, Craig is still fresh, a surprisingly welcome new variety of Bond. I suppose that's what generates so much praise for the man. And since you say you like him, I'm sure you won't hate me for referring to his impressive physicality and his abilities as an actor, which only add to the applause.

thelivingroyale said:
He just seems like dalton but more of an action man, I enjoy this version of bond but I don't think its the best ever.

I don't believe Craig and Dalton are so similar. They have both showed us a grittier version of 007, some would say one that's much closer to Fleming's image. And they both went rogue at one point. However, I think that's where the similarities run dry. Dalton was a suave, well-mannered gentleman Bond who didn't take any paternal lecturing from M. Craig's Bond is a re-chewed version of 24's Jack Bauer but still modelled after some parts of Fleming's template.

Again though you say you enjoy him. The fact that you don't think he should be ranked first isn't of direct concern to your point that he's overrated IMO. And in fact I don't think many people call Craig the best Bond ever. Some call him the best Bond since Connery. Some call him the best Bond since Dalton. Many call him a better Bond than Brosnan anyway. But very few would dare to go as far as calling him the best Bond ever.

thelivingroyale said:
Craig is 3rd on my list (1st dalton, 2nd brosnan/connery in a tie), he just seems average to me.

To be average in a group that's constituted by Sean Connery, Roger Moore, George Lazenby, Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan still seems like a fairly good deal. I'm jealous. I wouldn't even be average among their action figures. ;-) These are guys we'd all want very much to be like, in some cases. :P

thelivingroyale said:
Everybody talks about how he saved the franchise when the franchise was in no danger of ending after DAD (I hate DAD but it did well at the box office and got decent enough reviews at the time).

I may have to disagree on this. Yes, DAD made money but I doubt that a second DAD would have held people's interest. You always have to plan ahead. Your next product has to be fresh, something new and preferably something *better*. If it's a copy of the previous thing, you lose. So, had DAD 2, starring 50+ Brosnan in 2006 been the 21st Bond film, I truly doubt it would have rocked. CR was released to raving reviews, making more money, in absolute figures, than any Bond film ever before. An entirely new generation of Bond fans would rise to see and enjoy this film. Craig brought a young and energetic dynamic to the whole thing that inspired some men to work-out sessions and some women to naughty fantasies. ;-) You're right that DAD didn't destroy the franchise by itself, but I don't think it secured the franchise to a safe future either. One thing CR did was open the gate for a guaranteed success, although that guarantee was short-lived and now SF has yet again a lot to prove.

In a way, Craig (and CR) saved the franchise by offering it a productive start for a whole new era. Any follow-up to DAD would merely have existed on the fumes of the Bond re-freshening therapy of the mid '90s. One day, the Craig era will face the same problems... This is just how things goe.

thelivingroyale said:
And to be honest, I'm sick of people praising his every move. I know people have opinions but I find him overrated. I'm looking forward to skyfall, it might even change my opinion, but until then I'm sticking by this. I'm not going to go join one of those stupid places like craigisnotbond but I don't think he's as good as some people say.

Two things: opinion and freshness. Why can't you just shrug and think something else when you read people praising Craig? They respect your opinion - you should respect theirs. No need to be *sick* of it. Sounds a bit exaggerated to me. And don't worry, in ten years from now, Craig will have sunk a few places on many lists. He's just the new kid on the block right now and that's always a good position to catch a lot of praise.

I find it funny though how you always compensate your criticism of Craig with a confession that you actually like him, enjoy him and that you wouldn't campaign against him. You're obviously fed-up with ALL of the praise he gets - I'd say there are worse things than that. ;-)

thelivingroyale said:
One more thing, I don't want this thread to turn into another "craig fans vs anti craig fans" thread, so try not to argue too much.

Then I'm afraid you shouldn't have started a fresh thread then. Had you posted this in one of many existing Craig related threads, fewer people would have read it and even fewer people would have commented to it. But now you've reached a lot of curious folks and they might be eager to reply. If not, this is just another thread wasted on a few posts. I'm afraid it'll be difficult to keep this from becoming a pro versus anti thread. Oh and I will allow it to happen since otherwise it's a total waste of forum space I'm afraid. ;-)

In any case, I tried my best to reply without either openly defending or attacking Craig. I did my best, sir. :)

Kennon

The current Bond always seems to ride on a wave of appreciation that's more due to the hype than the actual importance of the actor. There's a lot we don't know as yet, will only learn in decades to come or never at all. The importance of each actor will most likely only be seen with time.
Each actor has a part in the ongoing success of the franchise, regardless what you think of them personally, because each flick made the money for the next one. True, the series wasn't going to end after DAD, so it's a little overdone to claim Craig 'rescued' it there. But personally I feel it's justified to say he rescued it by staying on board during the MGM disaster. Without a strong man in the lead that could have ended quite different.

PrinceKamalKhan

thelivingroyale said:
After watching CR and QOS again, I've come to this conclusion, daniel craig is overrated. I always thought connery was overrated, but not as much as craig. I like craig, I do, I really enjoyed CR (I hated QOS but thats not the point right now). But I really don't see whats so special about craig. He just seems like dalton but more of an action man, I enjoy this version of bond but I don't think its the best ever.

Craig was probably the most underrated Bond actor between the time period he was announced in the role to the actual release of CR with all the "Craig Not Bond!"/"Bond isn't blond!" hype. Then, after CR was released and folks actually saw his performance he became the slightly overrated Bond. I think Craig's an excellent actor and is a definite improvement over Brosnan. However, Connery, Dalton and Moore are my top 3 and that's unlikely to change. Even Lazenby benefits from something Craig can't have through no fault of his own and that's having his Bond exist in a time nearer to when Ian Fleming actually lived and wrote the character.

Agent007391

Overrated, I don't know. I think it's just that you've met more people (online or real) that prefer Craig. I've met just as many people (on both sides of the phone line) that outright hate him. And, as PKK up above said, Craig was hated between his signing and Casino Royale's release. I don't know why, exactly. I'd barely heard of him at the time (Tomb Raider was the only movie I'd seen him in, and I never even knew it was him, that American accent and all), and I was happy that he was taking on the role.

doubleoego

Craig isn't overrated he just shut the naysayers the hell up.

LeChiffre

doubleoego said:
Craig isn't overrated he just shut the naysayers the hell up.

Well said! CRAIG IS BOND and I,m sure Skyfall will take him into the Connery-Sphere! This has to be the most pointless discussion in the history of MI6!

thelivingroyale

Agent007391 said:
Overrated, I don't know. I think it's just that you've met more people (online or real) that prefer Craig. I've met just as many people (on both sides of the phone line) that outright hate him. And, as PKK up above said, Craig was hated between his signing and Casino Royale's release. I don't know why, exactly. I'd barely heard of him at the time (Tomb Raider was the only movie I'd seen him in, and I never even knew it was him, that American accent and all), and I was happy that he was taking on the role.

I defended him when he was cast and still like his bond, I just don't think he's as good as alot of people say.

thelivingroyale

Germanlady said:

thelivingroyale said:

One more thing, I don't want this thread to turn into another "craig fans vs anti craig fans" thread, so try not to argue too much.

So what else do you imagine can possibly happen and what is the purpose of this thread to begin with, if not another discussion pro and contra?

ok fair doos, I'll edit out that bit

thelivingroyale

PrinceKamalKhan said:

thelivingroyale said:
After watching CR and QOS again, I've come to this conclusion, daniel craig is overrated. I always thought connery was overrated, but not as much as craig. I like craig, I do, I really enjoyed CR (I hated QOS but thats not the point right now). But I really don't see whats so special about craig. He just seems like dalton but more of an action man, I enjoy this version of bond but I don't think its the best ever.

Craig was probably the most underrated Bond actor between the time period he was announced in the role to the actual release of CR with all the "Craig Not Bond!"/"Bond isn't blond!" hype. Then, after CR was released and folks actually saw his performance he became the slightly overrated Bond.

exactly

actonsteve

Kennon said:
But personally I feel it's justified to say he rescued it by staying on board during the MGM disaster. Without a strong man in the lead that could have ended quite different.

I agree with this. If it hadnt been for Craig keeping up the pressure and pushing his committment for it we may not have a Bond next year.

Good lad.

thelivingroyale

DarthDimi said:

thelivingroyale said:
I always thought connery was overrated

Seriously? Okay, another opinion but quite a controversial one IMO. I suggest you watch FRWL or TB again any one of these days. You may find that there's no substitute for Connery, or so I think. (my opinion ;-) )

I thought connery was a little bit overrated by some people but after watching goldfinger again not long ago I sort of started to see where they were coming from, so he joined brosnan at 2nd on my list. But connery cannot beat dalton (imo) :)

JBFan626

I don't think Craig is overrated generally speaking. His acting provides one of the stronger points of CR and especially QOS. He gives a very convincing and realistic performance in both.

That being said, I think as Bond in the more traditional Fleming sense, Craig is, if not overrated, than over-hyped as the "greatest Bond since Connery". But that doesn't mean I don't like him or his performances in his two Bond films. I think the other actors though, were more convincing portrayals of the Fleming archetype of Bond.

LeChiffre

In the post-Bourne world we know live in I think DC has brought Bond back up to speed with a much more physical interpretation that no one else can match. I would love to see DC in the killing of Dent scene in Dr No even though Connery was perfection!

BAIN123

LeChiffre said:
In the post-Bourne world we know live in I think DC has brought Bond back up to speed with a much more physical interpretation that no one else can match. I would love to see DC in the killing of Dent scene in Dr No even though Connery was perfection!

The closest we've had to that was the PTS of CR and Craig was superb.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

I don't think Craig is overrated. He is praised at common intervals, like all the Bond actors, but I myself have never said "oh boy am I getting sick of everyone praising Daniel Craig". Like I said, the praise is equal for the Bonds, prominently with Sean being seen as the blueprint that all Bonds should take inspiration from. I myself think Dan is great, and he really overcame a lot on his road to being Bond. He toughed it out and made me a happy Bond fan. I want years more of him as 007 too. He is the best since Sean in my opinion, definitely best since Dalton.

BAIN123

It'll be interesting to see how he'll be judged AFTER he leaves the role. At the moment he's very much 'flavour of the month' - as Pierce Brosnan was during his run.

Personally I don't think HE is overrated but his output so far has been. We've had one great Bond flick directed well and put together eligantly and one (in his words) 'cobbled together'.

I think there is a danger of over-hyping actors to the point where some start to resent them. EVERY Bond actor will be on magazine covers, on the television and in the newspapers so some of us are bound to think they are overrated.

My 90 year old grandfather, who's apparently read several of Fleming's books, says he was never that impressed with Sean Connery back in the 60s (he called him a 'working class Scotsman') and can't understand now how DC was cast as Bond. He's still as sharp as tack and puts me to shame when it comes to certain things in life so I'm not going to argue with him. Just the other day he called Roger Moore 'a jumped-up East-ender' :-))

4EverBonded

Kennon said:
The current Bond always seems to ride on a wave of appreciation that's more due to the hype than the actual importance of the actor. There's a lot we don't know as yet, will only learn in decades to come or never at all. The importance of each actor will most likely only be seen with time.
Each actor has a part in the ongoing success of the franchise, regardless what you think of them personally, because each flick made the money for the next one. True, the series wasn't going to end after DAD, so it's a little overdone to claim Craig 'rescued' it there. But personally I feel it's justified to say he rescued it by staying on board during the MGM disaster. Without a strong man in the lead that could have ended quite different.

I really agree. And I am happy that Dan is a good, solid actor. He does project strength and inner toughness, which I think does help move this series forward in a good way.

doubleoego

BAIN123 said:

My 90 year old grandfather, who's apparently read several of Fleming's books, says he was never that impressed with Sean Connery back in the 60s (he called him a 'working class Scotsman') and can't understand now how DC was cast as Bond. He's still as sharp as tack and puts me to shame when it comes to certain things in life so I'm not going to argue with him. Just the other day he called Roger Moore 'a jumped-up East-ender' :-))

Hahahaha

forgotmyusername

He's not overrated he's just not played Bond yet. He's played an unhappy man in love. Let's see what happens in this outing. The best thing I can say about him is that he's been the most watchable thing in both movies apart from ms.fields.

Just get rid of drench and he'll have more room to grow as Bond not as her little pet puppy, which winds me up. Her character is too much need her to fade in the background and let our man run free. And then we get a plot summary for the new film and it's all to do with M aaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

4EverBonded

Some of us, minority or not, really like Dench's M. I sure do.
But I do want this to focus a lot on Bond of course and see him grow, or already be grown into, the confident and suave 00 that he is meant to be. With plenty of great gals thrown in... and Q. And great scenery - so yeah, I am excited about Skyfall - with Craig.

DarthDimi

forgotmyusername said:
Just get rid of drench and he'll have more room to grow as Bond not as her little pet puppy, which winds me up. Her character is too much need her to fade in the background and let our man run free. And then we get a plot summary for the new film and it's all to do with M aaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Uhm, Judy Dench doesn't write her plot or lines for the Bond films... Why would getting rid of her solve your issues with M's relationship to Bond? They could get rid of Dench's M only to introduce a new actor/actress patronising Bond in the same manner we saw in the previous two films. It wouldn't change a thing. If, on the other hand, they'd let Dench's M pull off a couple of scenes like we got in the old days with the great Bernard Lee, she might win all of us over again. I still applaud the choice to cast her: I think she's an amazing actress and what I saw of her and Bond in GE cries for superlatives I have yet to acquaint myself to. It so happens that the writers decided to make her motherly lecture Bond in several of the next Bond films but to project all hatred towards these script decisions on her as an actress seems most unfair to me. This is what I keep throwing back at the Brosnan haters when they blame him for the scripts of his films. It makes no sense.

The only reason I'd have for writing Dench off as M in SF is age. At 77, she's struggling to keep up with the fitness I expect from the head of MI6. Otherwise though, I'd plead for as many more returns as she can handle, provided that the screenwriters can finally abandon that cringeworthy notion of an older, female M having to treat Bond as a Freudian subject to her maternal teachings.

OHMSS69

The cruel comments heaped on Craig after he was announced for the part were unfair. I for one was just happy that Brosnan was done, I did not think Criag was that good looking and this was after 40 years of good looking actors playing Bond. I rushed to the theater to see his new outing in 2006...
After seeing CR I was totally sold.
Craig is a dang good actor
He has redefined the role and has made it his own.
he is head and shoulders better than (zzzz) Brosnan
His intensity was similiar to Dalton (one of my favorites) and his physicalilty rivals Lazenby (minus the good looks).
He really did a good job grieving over Vesper and not since OHMSS was the Bond character ever taken this seriously.
No, I don't think Criag is overrated. he is the best thing that has happened to the franchise in recent years and it was a wise move on Babs part to re-boot the franchise. A stroke of genius.

haserot

What I like about Craig in the role, is that he brings a physicality that has been missing since the days of Connery and Lazenby.. if he had to, Bond could slug it out with the best of them - he's a licensed government assassin afterall...

But what sold me on him more than his physicality - because lets face it, any two bit action star can throw a convincing punch... it was his performances in the scenes in Dryden's office in CR, and confronting Yusef at the end of QOS (as well as others) - but these two stick out to me as why I think he is stellar Bond..

overrated? No... quite simply because I don't think he's turned in a subpar performance as Bond yet...

but again, this thread is all opinion based - so no matter what it's always one person's belief over another's.... and thats how wars start in civilization.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

^
And the brilliant scene in QoS where Bond confronts Greene and his goons in one of the best moments of the franchise.
http://youtu.be/cu_C5lQiecE

haserot

that is why i love the direction in that movie.... say what u want about the way the action was handled - fine, i can understand that.. but i thought Forster brought a level of artistic flair to the direction, color, and scope of the film that i hadn't seen since Peter Hunt... i consider QOS one of the better directed Bond films (if the action wasn't so frenetic)... it's a film that has it own unique look, feel, and style..... and heaven forbid a director try to leave his own creative stamp on a film lol.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

haserot said:
that is why i love the direction in that movie.... say what u want about the way the action was handled - fine, i can understand that.. but i thought Forster brought a level of artistic flair to the direction, color, and scope of the film that i hadn't seen since Peter Hunt... i consider QOS one of the better directed Bond films (if the action wasn't so frenetic)... it's a film that has it own unique look, feel, and style..... and heaven forbid a director try to leave his own creative stamp on a film lol.

I completely agree. QoS has quite grown on me.

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