The James Bond Debate Thread - 216
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 2,120
    I do not see any problem with the girl Tanya Roberts or the villain, he is actually quite impressive.

    Disagree with the thesis and am not quite sure if this one is not a bit in the section: "don't know anything else so I'll be proposing something stupid". :D
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi
    Posts: 5,860
    SaintMark said:

    "don't know anything else so I'll be proposing something stupid". :D



    I never joke about my work. ;-)

  • M_BaljeM_Balje
    Posts: 884
    Re: Bond films can be educational for children.

    Agree. For me the Bond series always be a litle bit kind of teacher too. Whyle i not realy like it there not be Dutch subtitle with the bonus material with the first 19 SE's the English subtitle i hope to inprove my English.

    There is also a sad side, the Bond movies be also full of inspyration but at scool it be dificult to get inspyred/give singnals whant to be - get the change to be creative. Language never be/not be my strongest thing, always be better with numbers. History always be somewhere in the middle. Moost things i get from tv if it is not Bond.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 2,120
    DarthDimi said:

    SaintMark said:

    "don't know anything else so I'll be proposing something stupid". :D



    I never joke about my work. ;-)



    There was I thinking of you as a teacher, like my missus and she generally does not joke about her work either.

    O:-)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded
    Posts: 2,392
    Re: AVTAK.
    Heck yes. Although I like Walken, but Tanya Roberts should have been left out.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 3,500
    I agree it could have helped. But i do like AVTAK! What would have helped more is the technology we have now. So Moore's face could be imposed on to the stunt double!
  • Samuel001Samuel001
    Posts: 9,893
    Without a doubt. This is why Octopussy works and A View To A Kill doesn't as far as believability goes.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan
    Posts: 1,744
    DarthDimi said:

    THESIS 105

    Had they gone with an older girl and ditto villain, AVTAK could have been somewhat more credible.



    Somewhat perhaps. But AVTAK's script had so many weaknesses, an older girl or a younger Bond wouldn't be enough the fix the film.

    Samuel001 said:

    Without a doubt. This is why Octopussy works and A View To A Kill doesn't as far as believability goes.



    Agreed. OP is the vastly superior film and the one Moore should have made his finale in the role.
  • KerimKerim
    Posts: 1,596
    That thesis would have made AVTAK even more geriatric. AVTAK was already doomed with an aged Moore, Grace Jones, the Stacy character, shoddy cinematography and a plot similiar to Goldfinger. Christopher Walken was fine as the main villian, and it really wouldn't have made a difference who the lead girl was as Stacy was a poorly written characters.
  • TouchMyButtonsTouchMyButtons
    Posts: 228
    DarthDimi said:

    THESIS 105

    Had they gone with an older girl and ditto villain, AVTAK could have been somewhat more credible.




    In my opinion the thesis should read, " Had they gone with a younger Bond, Older Girl and Villain, AVTAK could have been somewhat more credible. lol

    joking aside yes the villain and girl should have been older, it would have helped bring a bit more seriousness to the film. But in my opinion the whole movie was a major disaster, especially the end. Roger looked extremely old in AVTAK and his performance couldn't have been humorous and stiff.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,045
    No, AVTAK is legendary as is. Tanya Roberts may not be able to act very well, but wow, the looks are there! It may seem weird having a 58-year old Roger with a 20-something Tanya, but I have no complaints about it. As for Christopher Walken, he was the perfect Max Zorin. Anybody else wouldn't have worked as well as he did.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 2,247
    Walken was awesome as Zorin, one of my favorite villains in the series. The problem here was Moore was too old to have Roberts play opposite. The best scenario would have been for Dalton making his debut here.
  • TouchMyButtonsTouchMyButtons
    Posts: 228
    Seriously guys, have you watched the ending of AVTAK, Roger Moore , an old man swinging off of a firetruck through the streets of San Francisco. Come on, its one of the most absurd scenes of the entire franchises. When I watch some of Moore's outings I often wonder if the producers and directors were on LSD or smoking some strong herb while filming.

    I agree with you Sir Henry, Dalton definitely should have made his debut here, the film was much more suited for him, especially the stunts.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,045
    TouchMyButtons said:

    Seriously guys, have you watched the ending of AVTAK, Roger Moore , an old man swinging off of a firetruck through the streets of San Francisco. Come on, its one of the most absurd scenes of the entire franchises. When I watch some of Moore's outings I often wonder if the producers and directors were on LSD or smoking some strong herb while filming.

    I agree with you Sir Henry, Dalton definitely should have made his debut here, the film was much more suited for him, especially the stunts.



    Yes you're right, the fire truck scene is pretty lame, but I love AVTAK nonetheless. The following scene after the fire truck chase onto the end credits is one of the greatest Bond climaxes of all time.
  • KennonKennon
    Posts: 297
    Not a friend of AVTAK, don't think an older girl would have helped that one, no way. But why ever going with another villain? Walken is practically the best thing about AVTAK and a perfect Zorin. He's underused potential, sure. But without him the whole mess would be completely insufferable.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi
    Posts: 5,860
    THESIS 106

    Showing Bond drunk in QOS was a bold but very Flemingesque move.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007
    Posts: 4,831
    there wasn't much difference between sober-Craig and drunk-Craig - still the same monotone line delivery and the pouting.

  • KennonKennon
    Posts: 297
    DarthDimi said:

    THESIS 106

    Showing Bond drunk in QOS was a bold but very Flemingesque move.




    Agree about that being a thing Fleming's Bond indulges frequently and might have done in that manner in the books. From time to time there are references to bodn taking pills to be able to sleep, that too would fit into the picture. That said I'm not sure Bond was supposed to be that drunk. He's still quite present and I think that perfectly fit the bill for his supposed state of mind there. Damaged = yes. Beaten = no.
  • echoecho
    Posts: 1,183
    Agree.

    Bond drinks a lot in CR and QoS, and it fits the character that Fleming created.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 7,792
    DaltonCraig007 said:

    Master_Dahark said:

    Sean Connery Roger Moore Timothy Dalton tought me how to be a man. ;)



    fixed :)



    No, NOW it's fixed :)
  • bondbat007bondbat007
    Posts: 923
    Agreed. And I'm glad they didn't show him THAT drunk because that would be pushing it. But the somber scene with Mathis on the plane remains one of my favorites in the film to this day
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi
    Posts: 5,860
    I also think Arnold's Vesper cue playing in the back was a great creative choice.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 3,500
    I agree. Bold and clever move to see him at a low thoughtful point, well under the influence of alcohol. A memorable scene played out with Mathis.
  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,804
    Agreed, But I also agree with @DaltonCraig that it could of been pulled of better.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe
    Posts: 3,261
    He was drunk in QOS? :-??
  • Samuel001Samuel001
    Posts: 9,893
    DarthDimi said:

    I also think Arnold's Vesper cue playing in the back was a great creative choice.



    I liked that too. The scene is me is very Thunderball, the novel, so I'm glad at last it was included somewhere in the series.

    Maybe we'll see it again, this time effecting his work? One can only hope.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 2,120
    Was he drunk? Or did he just drink a lot?
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 7,792
    MajorDSmythe said:

    He was drunk in QOS? :-??



    That was kind of my reaction. Then again I haven't seen it in a year or two.
  • MrEonMrEon
    Posts: 273
    DarthDimi said:

    I also think Arnold's Vesper cue playing in the back was a great creative choice.



    Indeed...Talent does exist, Composer and Music editor united!! :-B
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,332
    MajorDSmythe said:

    He was drunk in QOS? :-??



    thelivingroyale said:

    MajorDSmythe said:

    He was drunk in QOS? :-??



    That was kind of my reaction. Then again I haven't seen it in a year or two.



    Ditto that! When was he drunk? I thought maybe the cameraman was drunk during the opening car chase sequence, or perhaps the editors in post production.
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