The James Bond Debate Thread - 223

00Beast

RogueThunderball said:
@00Beast. I love the idea of a Blofeld trilogy with Lazenby.

I'm not the biggest fan of Lazenby but he would have been better than Connery in YOLT and if he would have done a proper DAF, we could have a great continuity for the Blofeld story. The producers really screwed up here imo.

Thanks! It would have been a cool thing to see happen!

JWESTBROOK

RogueThunderball said:
@00Beast. I love the idea of a Blofeld trilogy with Lazenby.

I'm not the biggest fan of Lazenby but he would have been better than Connery in YOLT and if he would have done a proper DAF, we could have a great continuity for the Blofeld story. The producers really screwed up here imo.

Connery not in YOLT is heresay. Off with your head. THATS HIS MOVIE. You can't take it.

:P

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

As much as I kiss the earth Sean walks on, I'd rather have him back out at TB then have Laz do YOLT, OHMSS, then DAF the proper way. It would've been special, a revenge-type tale. Instead we got a mediocre YOLT that I still have trouble sitting through, and a Connery follow up in DAF that started the "campy train" LALD to AVTAK.

4EverBonded

I liked much of YOLT but honestly a tall, burly Scot as a Japanese ... still quite can't get past that part. I would have liked to have seen Lazenby in at least two but not Live and Let Die; that was a good one to intro Roger.

Kennon

DarthDimi said:
THESIS 005

George Lazenby should have done at least one more Bond film after OHMSS.

Definitely. There has been a lot reported lately about a very long term contract that Lazenby didn't want to sign because he was told the spy craze was a thing of the past and wouldn't abide. What i wonder is, did Lazenby ever have a choice signing for less than that long contract, was that maybe everything or nothing? A commitment for a very long time or no deal at all?

M_Balje

001: Martin Campbell saved the Bond franchise twice

Not like to say it but Yes. When i saw the movie in the cinema my opnion be difrent. I always thaught there only choose him because fans whant him back a lot & it be a save option. After 2 more views, QOS and time i think mabey Eon hired him indeed as save option in the meaning that audince forgive give him easier. Casino Royale playing with classic elements and also at some very agression.

002a: The cinematic James Bond cannot keep modernizing.

No. I think on a couple of things there not modernizing enough. Other things to much. Some movies in the past or for example season 1 of MacGyver are steps forward more then the Bond movies after Twine. QOS is freshing on a couple of things. One thing i think modernizing to much is the age of the actres. I like to see more older woman in the movies as well from other sides of the world.

002b: They need to go back to Bond’s roots – explore the ‘50s and ‘60s once more.

Yes and No. If you mean the spying and more people/more bond girls then i say yes.

003: The second half of almost every Bond film introduces a steep decline in quality.
I disagree. Goldeneye. Some other movies need more views before i like them. But CR be first of the 6 Bond movies i saw in the cinema i ask my self i can stil like Bond movies.

004: A different director each Bond film is better than the same director working on several Bond films.

John Glen proofs he did very well. Also iam happy Terence young made FRWL. I think Guy Hamilton should have done Thunderball. I am happy he returns for DAF. I have like to see Michael Apted directed Bond 20. First i whas also happy with the return of Campbell.

005: George Lazenby should have done at least one more Bond film after OHMSS.
Agree. Whyle DAF is my second Sean Connery favorite Bond movie.

thelivingroyale

005: I think he should've done at least one more. Connery didn't need to do DAF.

slyfox

I would have LOVED to have seen Lazenby return. I used to criticise Lazenby several years ago but OHMSS is now one of my favourite Bond movies and his performance is a highlight of the film.

I think he gets a lot of unfair criticism because he did just one movie. Looking at his performance, he brought a down to earth charm to the role, had great chemistry with series regulars and was way more physical than the ageing Connery. You genuinely believe he could defeat those guys on the beach in the PTS, there was no unrealistic superhero stupidity about his performance. He came across as a real man. Yes, he was new to the acting game but thats even more reason why I think he would have got stronger with each film.

Getafix

Lazer did a decent job but not sure he could have sustained on going success in the same way as Rog.

Zekidk

He certainly looked the part, but for crying out loud - he delivered his lines so poorly, that they even had to dub him throughout the movie (and I'm not referring to the Hilary Bray scenes here).

Univex

001 True. Fact.
002 I´d pay to see that, just don´t abandon the modernization line altogether
003 True, with some exceptions, like CR
004 Probably true
005 Yes, many more

00Beast

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 said:
As much as I kiss the earth Sean walks on, I'd rather have him back out at TB then have Laz do YOLT, OHMSS, then DAF the proper way. It would've been special, a revenge-type tale. Instead we got a mediocre YOLT that I still have trouble sitting through, and a Connery follow up in DAF that started the "campy train" LALD to AVTAK.

Well, I'd agree with you on TMWTGG, TSWLM, MR, and AVTAK on the campy train. I don't really think that LALD, FYEO, and OP qualify as camp as much as the others do.

4EverBonded said:
I liked much of YOLT but honestly a tall, burly Scot as a Japanese ... still quite can't get past that part. I would have liked to have seen Lazenby in at least two but not Live and Let Die; that was a good one to intro Roger.

Exactly! Lazenby could have had a small Bond career but not to cut into Roger's time.

Baltimore_007

Never really gave it much thought before but I was thinking that Lazenby could of well worked, better than Connery even, in You Only Live Twice, even better if they had cut all that 'Turning Bond Japanese' crap out of it, it was bad enough at the time turning Connery into an island native so I certainly wouldn't have wanted Lazenby doing likewise, if they had scrubbed that idea I do feel George would of been quite suitable in 'Live Twice, It would of been interesting to see how it would of worked out

karatemanchan37

@ Baltimore_007

Well the "original" Blofeld trilogy from the books consisted of "TB, OHMSS and then YOLT". The whole fact to "turn japanese" was to conceal Bond's identity so that he wouldn't be recognized when he went to kill Blofeld in revenge.

The producers kept the series linear and towards the books by starting the whole SPECTRE plot with DN, FRWL and TB. To keep the continuity, they would've done OHMSS next (which was predicted at the end titles of TB).

However, they opted to do YOLT instead, because of two things: 1) a more exotic and dramatic setting and 2) more action!. Remember that by 1967 Bondmania was at its peak and YOLT had the largest budget to date, so of course they would rather do YOLT rather than OHMSS in terms of budget and audience reasons.

Naturally, this would have its opposite effect, as people complained about its weaker story and loss of who "James Bond" is, which caused Sean to eventually give up the role as Bond. So when OHMSS really did came out, Peter Hunt followed the story as closely as possible, and unintentionally messing up all the continuity that follows it ever since.

Read more here: http://www.hmss.com/films/ohmss67/

Kennon

karatemanchan37 said:

However, they opted to do YOLT instead, because of two things: 1) a more exotic and dramatic setting and 2) more action!. Remember that by 1967 Bondmania was at its peak and YOLT had the largest budget to date, so of course they would rather do YOLT rather than OHMSS in terms of budget and audience reasons.

Strange they turned to YOLT for more action, the book has a good deal less action than OHMSS. And the Swiss mountains would have been exotic enough for me. I once read the Eon team was afraid OHMSS would come out like a TB on skis. Though I really don't know why that would have been a bad thing.

DarthDimi

THESIS 006

John Barry deserves more recognition for The Bond Theme than Monty Norman.

DaltonCraig007

In the last 4 years on here (3 on KTBEU), I never have seen any member say 'Norman's Bond theme'... I have always seen 'Barry's Bond theme' written on Bond forums.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

No he doesn't. After being legally fighting to stop publications saying Barry was the true composer when he was, I think it should be Monty who deserves more recognition. I have never heard "Monty's Bond Theme" anywhere, sadly. Just Barry, Barry, Barry. He has enough recognition in the music world, especially for Bond. Let that be his legacy and give Monty recognition for the Bond theme.

bondbat007

After reading about this and watching various interviews, it sounds like Norman did create the majority of the theme. I'm guessing Barry added to a lot of it and it wouldn't be the same theme we know today without his contribution. I think they should both be credited instead of just Monty Norman. But in no way should Norman NOT be credited

RogueAgent

without doubt Norman deserves credit for the james bond theme. And Barry deserves credit for the orchestration of the music!

Samuel001

I agree, it should be the other way around. Norman needs a bit more credit, though he does get that in all the films.

DaltonCraig007

Well Norman, alongside Cubby and Fleming are the only persons to be credited in all 23 Bond films.

JBFan626

Getafix said:
Could have done without DAF altogether in my view. A soulless boring movie. Not sure Lazer would have made much difference. I think what this shows is that five movies is probably enough for most Bonds. Talk of eight for Craig is not only a fantasy but a bad idea.

Had Lazer stuck around for DAF, it would have been a completely different movie, because you would then have Peter Hunt directing, and no need to go back to a Goldfinger style of film. However, DAF as it was made with Connery, is one of those uncanny miracles of film-making, where everything veers on the verge of disaster, but somehow the whole thing is held together just enough, that the end result is kitsch and camp of the highest order.

I'm torn, OHMSS and DAF are my two favorite Bond films, yet they couldn't be any more polar opposites. OHMSS Part 2 starring Lazers is the great lost opportunity of the series that never was. Yet Connery DAF was this unlikely magical creation where everything came together at the right time. With all the off-camera pressure with Laz and Hunt, I'm not sure what kind of movie they would have ended up making. And besides, the producers already screwed up the Blofeld trilogy by making YOLT first. So either way DAF would require a vast re-working of the script to fully divulge into the revenge angle. So in conclusion, Connery DAF 1971 for the win!

DaltonCraig007 said:
Well Norman, alongside Cubby and Fleming are the only persons to be credited in all 23 Bond films.

Perhaps a co-writing credit for Barry?

Virage

No... Norman Wrote It, Barry Performed it.

Anyway Dose it really matter? All that we have is a killer theme tune

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Both deserve credit. Problem solved, case closed, discussion ended. >:D<

4EverBonded

OK, I just want to say (as OBrady is closing this off ...) that I mentioned the theme by Norman a couple of weeks ago on a thread, but couldn't remember his last name at the time ... so forgive me. It is the main pulse, exactly why we think of "Bond" as soon as we hear it. an unforgettable great theme song that I want in every Bond film (not overdone, but definitely there). Barry is awesome, but let's always remember Norman's theme as his.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

4EverBonded said:
OK, I just want to say (as OBrady is closing this off ...) that I mentioned the theme by Norman a couple of weeks ago on a threat, but couldn't remember his last name at the time ... so forgive me. It is the main pulse, exactly why we think of "Bond" as soon as we hear it. an unforgettable great theme song that I want in every Bond film (not overdone, but definitely there). Barry is awesome, but let's always remember Norman's theme as his.

I'm not closing it off, just asserting myself. It is @Dimi's decision as to when this topic is closed.

DarthDimi

Well, it's not due for closure till somewhere tomorrow, lads. ;-) But thank you both for being so considerate.

OHMSS69

DarthDimi said:
I think the following films maintain a strong second half:
* DN
* FRWL
* GF
* TB
* YOLT
* OHMSS
* MR
* FYEO
* OP
* TLD
* LTK
* GE
* CR

Hence, I disagree with the thesis.

I agree with DarthDemi
most of the films have strong 2nd halves. the weak first halves can be seen in most of the Brosnan period as well as MR after the PTS. These films that take a nose dive in the second act are in the minority,.

DarthDimi

I don't agree that the first halves are weak though. I can hardly think of a Bond film that lets me down during its first half only to recover in full for its second half.

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