The James Bond Debate Thread - 216

Samuel001

DarthDimi said:
We don't need the younger generation to grow into Bond this way. They will eventually find Bond when the time is right. Most of us saw Connery or Brosnan or one of the other guys when we were still very much in our childhood. It didn't stop us from becoming fierce Bond fans. Also, imagine a seven year old reading Young Bond and then subsequently developing a certain set of expectations. Next you show him LTK or FYEO. How will that work out, I wonder? I can't imagine the Young Bonds to come even close to these films, their spirit or their kind of Bond. I could be mistaken of course - I speak with no experience in the Young Bond series.

They'd throw the 'Young Bond' away and move onto proper Bond. With time, like us all, their opinions would change from the teenage and childhood years. Why say "We don't need the younger generation to grow into Bond this way"? Who cares how they get into Bond, any way is good as far as I'm concerned.

The novels are very good indeed and do evoke a sense of Fleming's work and the films, even For Your Eyes Only and Licence To Kill. Many do believe, as @Virage said, that the series betters the continuation author's books.

As you said @DarthDimi, I think your preconceived ideas have lead to misconceptions about these novels. They're the best Bond books next to Fleming's in my opinion and Higson is a great writer. Yes, the stories are far too "out there" but the style, pace, characters and all that, really are great.

You should read them, if only to find out how good they are.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

I'll be honest. I will probably never pick up the Young Bond novels. I like Fleming's work, and want to read only his when it comes to Bond's backstory. He made Bond, so he knows the character and what his past was. Like someone said before, the mystery is still there when you don't delve into the Young Bond novels, which is intriguing. Vice versa with the Young Sherlock Holmes books, of which I definitely won't read. No one writes Holmes but Conan Doyle in my mind, and that will forever reign true.

RogueAgent

As long as Eon don't suggest a seperate movie like they did with Jinx! X_X

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

RogueAgent said:
As long as Eon don't suggest a seperate movie like they did with Jinx! X_X

TELL ME ABOUT IT! Ugggggggghhh... what was EON thinking during the entire production of DAD?! Were their brains swapped out with that of a highly reckless teenager under the influence of drugs?!

RogueAgent

lol! I did panic bigtime when it was suggested!

Virage

RogueAgent said:
As long as Eon don't suggest a seperate movie like they did with Jinx! X_X

You realize you are talking about one of the most sort after book series in Hollywood.

DarthDimi

THESIS 009

CR67 should never have been made.

Samuel001

Damn right! But it was made and there you go. It paved the way for Austin Powers which in turn spoofed Bond. One funny situation.

Baltimore_007

Absolutely. A James Bond 'spoof' if you will, and although I've watched it as we all have, I don't remember much about it, maybe it was that lame but it's not a release I remember with any real recognition, same as with Never Say Never again to a certain extent.

SJK91

True. Although there are many stars whom I admire in the film, CR67 was a train wreck overall.

bondbat007

Although I'm VERY happy we got CR2006, Cubby and Harry should of made a deal with Charles Feldman to make CR with Connery in the 60s. Kind of like what they did with Thunderball.

CR67 is awful. It has a great cast, a great score, but the film is just terrible.

But the Bond series is where it should be now so no complaints from me

Virage

It's a spoof that isn't funny! And it could have ruined the franchise, Yes IT NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE!!

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

CR with Sean would've been very interesting. I am picturing the tension on the screen as he plays cards with Le Chiffre. The romance/betrayal with Vesper would have been interesting as well, since Connery's Bond doesn't show a ton of emotion. The most emotion I can say I've seen in the Connery Bond films in Bond lamenting Kerim's death.

thelivingroyale

007- maybe, but TSWLM is fine the way it is so I wouldn't go back in time and risk it

008- Haven't read them, my nephew had a comic version of one of them which he said was good though

009- I didn't find this funny at all. I LOVE austin powers, and like johnny english, but this is just crap. So yeah, it should never have been made.

RogueAgent

It is a complete mess of a film which isn't that funny! But i guess when you have several directors in one film? Thats not gonna help much. However? The one good thing from that film? Dusty Springfields song "The look of love" What an absolute classic track!

DoubleOhhSeven

Agreed.

Kerim

I also agree. Entertaining, great music and loaded with stars perhaps, but it was nothing more than an ordinary 60's camp film.

Between CR67 and DAF, two Bond parodies with Bond in it are more than enough.

PrinceKamalKhan

DarthDimi said:
THESIS 009

CR67 should never have been made.

I'll be a renegade and disagree. It's hard to imagine the Bond cinema world now without this ultimate "Bizarro" Bond film. Without its existence, we'd probably not have the official EON CR '06 that exists now in reality and I enjoyed the fact that there was a Fleming novel not yet filmed by EON years after they ran out of official Fleming titles. If Broccoli and Saltzman had agreed to Charles Feldman's offer and coproduced it like they did with Kevin McClory on TB, it is interesting to ponder how the Bond series would've turned out differently since one change in the link affects every film that comes after it.

TheWizardOfIce

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 said:
CR with Sean would've been very interesting. I am picturing the tension on the screen as he plays cards with Le Chiffre. The romance/betrayal with Vesper would have been interesting as well, since Connery's Bond doesn't show a ton of emotion. The most emotion I can say I've seen in the Connery Bond films in Bond lamenting Kerim's death.

I wonder how it would have turned out though? CR in place of YOLT would give us a Sean who couldnt give a toss and a film that would have had to have been completely over the top to deliver on audience expectations of the day - which a climax at a card table certainly would not have satisfied.

Even if they had had the bottle to film it pretty much as written (unlikley in the climate of Bondmania, superspies with gadgets everywhere etc) would the audience have been happy with such a downbeat story and ending? Doubtful considering how George faired just two years later.

And this leads onto another problem - OHMSS would not exist until a lot later in the series. No way they could have the Bond girl killed off in the final reel for two films running. It would mean DAF for George (and probably pretty much in the same comedy vein it is now as light relief after Vespers death), LALD for Seans return (probably not much different). Could they start with OHMSS for Rogs first? Again I doubt it as it would still only be 2 films since Vesper and the endings are too similar. I imagine we would get TMWTGG, TSWLM and MR pretty much the same and then for a back to basics serious film we might get OHMSS instead of FYEO. Much as I love Rog I just cant see this turning out as well as OHMSS 69.

Another, very interesting, proposition would be if Cubby and Harry had done a deal with Feldman to make CR after YOLT. Then we would have got YOLT the same as it is now but a CR in 69 true to the book and with George and directed by Peter Hunt. I'm slavering with excitment at the very thought. But then of course we wouldnt have OHMSS 69 and would probably end up with OHMSS in the 80s with Rog .

On balance I think its best things turned out as they did as we get a faithful OHMSS in 69 and faithful CR in 06. Even if we had been blessed with a Hunt/Lazenby CR in 69 they would have used up OHMSS in the late Rog period (Maud Adams as Tracy anyone?) when they were running out of titles.

Unless of course they waited until 87..??

Hunt/Lazenby CR 69 and a Glen/Dalton OHMSS 87 (Glen not in the same league as Hunt but I've no problems with him here as TLD is a triumph and he directed most of the OHMSS ski scenes anyway) would certainly be tough to choose between the reality of OHMSS 69 and CR 06.

DarthDimi

I disagree with the thesis. It took me a third viewing before I really got into the film but I ended up noticing certain qualities and elements to enjoy. The music, for example, is great. An overall wonderful score. I also love most of the cast members, including the underused Miss Giovanna Goodthighs, played by the beautiful Jacqueline Bisset, and my favourite all-time actor, Peter Sellers. Sure, some of the ridiculousness could have been cut but there are solid moments in the film. And of course one has to take this film as intended: a parody.

PrinceKamalKhan

TheWizardOfIce said:
Hunt/Lazenby CR 69 and a Glen/Dalton OHMSS 87 (Glen not in the same league as Hunt but I've no problems with him here as TLD is a triumph and he directed most of the OHMSS ski scenes anyway) would certainly be tough to choose between the reality of OHMSS 69 and CR 06.

Those are intriguing ideas, TWOI. I have a feeling if OHMSS had been made in the 1970s with Sir Rog instead, it might not have been a faithful rendition of Fleming's novel.

DarthDimi said:
I also love most of the cast members, including the underused Miss Giovanna Goodthighs, played by the beautiful Jacqueline Bisset

Indeed. She would've made a terrific EON Bond girl back in her prime.

SaintMark

I find that CR'67 has a lot of qualities that make it an enjoyable albeit daft evening with gorgeous women, great music, Niven, Sellers and that cameo by Woody Allen always cracks me up. And this CR has the ultimate Le Chiffre in the person of Orson Welles. It has nothing to do with Ian Flemings charcter or EONs various versions but as a pisstaking it does very well.
A good thing it got made before EON got all powerfull and got rights to everything we now have some disagreeing visions of which this one cracks me up more often than not.

After the Barry soundtracks this one comes easily second.

DarthDimi

THESIS 010

Sending Bond into space was a mistake.

SJK91

DarthDimi said:
THESIS 010

Sending Bond into space was a mistake.

Of course it was. The sad thing is that the outer space sequences in Moonraker were done quite well. The special effects (considering the film was made in 1979) were fairly impressive. But space just added another layer of silliness to Moonraker that I didn't need. (After the Bondola, Jaws falling in love AND Magnificent Seven music...sigh)

PrinceKamalKhan

DarthDimi said:
THESIS 010

Sending Bond into space was a mistake.

Nope. It was a clever move on Broccoli's part for the time and raked in a lot of cash. Bond knockoff Derek Flint did the same thing 12 years earlier in In Like Flint. Plus, that final battle in outer space is one of my top 5 final battles in the series(along with TB, YOLT, OHMSS and TSWLM). I'm glad the screen 007 got to do the Luke Skywalker routine once in his career.

DaltonCraig007

Sending Bond into space in the 2000's would be a terrible mistake, as the whole sequence would be CGI. But as it happened in 1979, there's something 'Bond nostalgia' about it, with the old special effect, the minatures... I am glad Bond went to space, and more so that it took place in the pre-CGI era.

SaintMark

MR was my first 007 adventure after reading the books. I seriously thought I had missed one but found out that there is a difference between Flemings and EON's vision. And thank you there is, MR the movie is an excellent actioner that stood up easily against the giants of Scifi like Star Wars & Star Trek. I think nobody had the ability to bring this feat to possibility than the great Saint Sir Roger Moore himself.
While a lot of fans seem to moan about the movie it fits well in with the times when I was a wee lad. It took me quite few years before I got the pun about dr. Goodhead. :\">
Bond went to space and nobody did it better. After all there have been quite a few threts from space and this time 007 got there up himself to take matter into his own hands.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Yes, it was. Riding on the coattails of Star Wars, Bond tried to bring in some $$$, and failed. Bond should be on Earth, and only Earth.

DarthDimi

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 said:
Yes, it was. Riding on the coattails of Star Wars, Bond tried to bring in some $$$, and failed. Bond should be on Earth, and only Earth.

I wouldn't say he failed. MR made buckets of money.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

DarthDimi said:

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 said:
Yes, it was. Riding on the coattails of Star Wars, Bond tried to bring in some $$$, and failed. Bond should be on Earth, and only Earth.

I wouldn't say he failed. MR made buckets of money.

It failed as a Bond film for me, because Moore wasn't ever Bond to me.

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