Spectre in Octopussy?

I was reading a review of Octopussy when I came across the following:
McClory’s continuing legal claims to the character of Ernst Stavro Blofeld and the SPECTRE organisation scuppered Broccoli’s early plans for the plot of Octopussy. The eponymous character was originally conceived as a villain using research into the death of Tracy Bond to manipulate Bond into joining her vendetta against SPECTRE.

Does anyone have more information on this? It sounds like a pretty neat scenario.

Comments

  • Posts: 9,730
    That does sound like an interesting film
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    I wonder if Fraser came up with that storyline.
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 2,887
    I was looking through my copy of The Making of On Her Majesty's Secret Service and found a passage I'd completely forgotten about; it mentions that in an early draft of Octopussy there's a scene of Octopussy's girls raiding a Spectre factory that prints counterfeit money. Apparently an earlier script portrayed Octopussy as an Asian woman who ran a nightclub in Tokyo and teamed up with Goldfinger's diamond-obsessed brother, a certain Monsieur Diamont...
    Like ThomasCrown76, I also wondered if Fraser was responsible for the early plot. However, the Making of OHMSS complicates the issue by pointing out that the Goldfinger's-brother gimmick was something Richard Maibaum had toyed with since 1964.
    In any case, we now have confirmation of Spectre's involvement in the genesis of Octopussy. There really needs to be a book about all the unused Bond scripts. How fascinating that would be...
  • Posts: 250
    It wouldn't be a stretch to attribute it to Fraser. The final product feels nothing like his work.

    On that topic, I'm also curious if the references to Bond's history in TSWLM come directly from Wood or if Maibaum was always trying to do that kind of thing but was hamstrung by either McClory or Broccoli.
  • Posts: 250
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I have no answer to that, but it would seem to be an odd coincidence that the first time that Tracy is definitely referred to (DIAMONDS ARE FOREVERis vague, intentionally so, I believe…basically saying, you count ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE as canon or don't, it's up to you..to distance DAF from it's poorly received predecessor) is the same movie that was to feature the return of SPECTRE and some form of Blofeld. It makes sense that the exchange between Bond and XXX is a holdover from Maibaum's original concept. And a great, memorable moment in the franchise.

    It's such a shame that we didn't get the "true" TSWLM... I think it would have been satisfactory for Moore to close off that story, and if you simply transplant the brutal killing of Stromberg to Blofeld it's very satisfying... moreso than using him as a wrecking ball or dropping him down a chimney-stack.
  • Posts: 2,887
    FourDot wrote: »
    It wouldn't be a stretch to attribute it to Fraser. The final product feels nothing like his work.
    On that topic, I'm also curious if the references to Bond's history in TSWLM come directly from Wood or if Maibaum was always trying to do that kind of thing but was hamstrung by either McClory or Broccoli.

    From what I've read, very little of Fraser's script was used for Octopussy. Broccoli apparently decided to chuck it and have Maibaum and Wilson start from scratch.
    I'd go with Maibaum as the author of the OHMSS reference in TSWLM. He was heavily invested in OHMSS, worked closely with Hunt, and his early drafts of DAF play up the revenge angle (and include Irma Bundt, though the death of the actress who played her removed any chance of her appearing). He even wrote a memo to the producers telling them that if they went with Blofeld, audiences would expect them to follow up on the revenge plot.
    The more I read about the production histories of the Bond films, the more I regret I feel about Maibaum's work being put aside in favor of Mankiewicz and Wood's.

  • Posts: 250
    Interesting. I'd love to dig into those notes and scripts if they exist. IMO Maibaum is almost as responsible for what people understand "Bond" to be as anyway.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,727
    I actually wrote an article on this years ago (in 2006) as I believe that I have one of the sources for this story of Octopussy as a vengeful villainess. I will fix up the article, add in any new information and post it on The Bondologist Blog ASAP. How's that sound?
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 2,887
    FourDot wrote: »
    Interesting. I'd love to dig into those notes and scripts if they exist. IMO Maibaum is almost as responsible for what people understand "Bond" to be as anyway.

    Oh, they definitely exist! Maibaum's papers are held by the University of Iowa, and there are over 15 boxes of scripts, notes, and other papers dealing with James Bond. Someone really needs to go through that treasure trove.

    The James Bond Dossier has also posted a very candid interview with Maibaum. In another interview, Maibaum states his feelings on OHMSS:
    I consider the script of On Her Majesty’s Secret Service as the best I’ve done in the series, perhaps because it was the fullest and most realized novel. The characterizations were more realistic and the odd thing is that I stuck very close to the book and it all seemed to work. If Sean had done the role it would have been far the best of the Bond pictures and [would’ve] been one of the biggest blockbusters of all time. Even so I like it very much - I think Gabriele Ferzetti was fantastic - and it’s one of my favorite pictures. I liked [Lazenby] very much, but he was very unprofessional.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I actually wrote an article on this years ago (in 2006) as I believe that I have one of the sources for this story of Octopussy as a vengeful villainess. I will fix up the article, add in any new information and post it on The Bondologist Blog ASAP. How's that sound?

    Sounds terrific! I will await your article, and in the meantime please accept my thanks in advance.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Could they be reusing some of those early ideas for Octopussy in SPECTRE, I wonder.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,417
    Thank you @Revelator - very informative.
  • Posts: 2,887
    I also asked about this topic on the Commander Bond forum and received the following response from a user named Pierceuhhh:
    I don't have my copy with me so I may have some details wrong, but the Taschen James Bond Archives book explains it:

    SPECTRE attacks MI6 and kills M. Bond is framed as an inside man and goes on the run, and Moneypenny is sacked. SPECTRE then replaces M with their own man, so they can run the secret... Octopussy runs a spy outfit of her own that's at war with SPECTRE, and Bond teams up with her and an Afghan freedom fighter called Kamal Khan. The villains are Blofeld and the head of his SPECTRE army, Smythe. The pre-titles [sequence] was in the Netherlands.
    Kamal Khan's name later turned up as the villain's, the character of Kamal Khan later turned up in TLD as Kamran Shah, and it looks like literally the...rest of the plot was recycled for BOND 24!
    The Taschen book actually relates a lot of original plot ideas that I've never head of before, and no sources are cited! But it's fun!

    I'll have to save up to buy that Taschen book. I hear it's the size of a baby blue whale...
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited January 2015 Posts: 17,727
    That sounds very interesting indeed, @Revelator. All grist for the mill - I'm working on my old article and updating it for the blog but I may need to save up and buy that very costly book too.

    You could try posting this topic on AJB007 forums as you might get some more responses there too. :)
  • Posts: 2,887
    Good idea--I made an inquiry there too. I'm hoping used copies of the Taschen book will eventually drop below $100. I still feel lingering pain from having shelled out for the Ian Fleming Bibliography!
  • PFOPFO
    Posts: 18
    Actually, Christopher Wood wrote the "married only once, wife killed" exchange. They discuss this on the DVD audio commentary. Wood says he wrote the lines and Michael G. Wilson confirms it.

    Having read Wood's novels - the real ones, not those Confessions books - I'd say that it matches how people talk in Wood's books. There's a surprising amount of pathos in Wood's fiction.
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